Unpopular Opinion: Tieflings Are a Terrible PC Race

[Cameo]

So I get everyone likes to play the edgy demon-people.

Here's the problem.

If you know anything about how people actually are, with regards to fear and prejudice, you'd know what I know, which is that a tiefling would have an extremely difficult time surviving anywhere. Outside a very narrow, limited scope of possibilities (isolating under the protection of certain dark cults, living among evil intelligent species such as drow or orcs, or simply going full Les Stroud in the wilderness), actually having a life - even a wandering, adventurer's life - on the Prime Material Plane as a tiefling is only slightly safer than barebacking a two-copper berserking Rashemi prostitute.

If you strut around most places in the Prime as a tiefling, it's really, realistically, only a matter of time until you end up burned at the stake...especially if we're talking about these really deformed, flashy, obviously non-human tieflings as portrayed in Baldur's Gate 3. Magic I can suspend my disbelief for. Dragons, sure. But the fact that A LITERAL HORNED DEVIL PERSON is walking around and no one is even mentioning it is ridiculous. You'd be rounded up and burned alive at the stake faster than you can say "B-b-b-but my +2 to Charisma??!"

I can hear it now. "Oh but what if people are used to tieflings? All it means is they have some infernal lineage in their blood." Oh, really, is that all it means? You mean they're only *literally* descended from demons and devils? At various times in history, wild claims and accusations were made against certain ethnic and cultural groups to justify the extermination of entire communities, and THOSE accused people looked like everyone else. How much more severe would that hammer fall on tieflings?

"But this isn't Earth, this is Fae'run." Yeah, I know. But you need verisimilitude in order to make any fantasy setting believable. That's the whole point. You have to *believe* this is a place that could actually exist. People as a rule tend to be very savage. Dwarves? Forget about it; they'd be most retrograde, prejudiced, stuck in their ways race imaginable. Elves? Read the old German fairy tales about just some of the things traditional legends say the fae and their ilk are capable of. Hobb--sorry, Halflings? They care about their families and communities more than anything, they'd be running you off and shutting doors on you so fast it'd make your little horned head spin.

And humans, well, we all know what we're like. We are a tribal species that is literally terrifying when it comes to anything different, especially something that *looks* different.

This is all to say that Baldur's Gate 3, and 5th Edition Dungeons & Dragons in general, made a huge blunder when they included tieflings as a base playable race. It's just not believable. You would be exterminated as a threat in two seconds.

But, so would any drow elf. Same situation.

[Hobocop]

It's almost as if...that's exactly what makes the choice so interesting and full of narrative/storytelling possibilities beyond that of other core races?

[droggen]

Pretty sure you can cast disguise on your self as well if you're that into the RP portion of the game.

[Cameo]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

It's almost as if...that's exactly what makes the choice so interesting and full of narrative/storytelling possibilities beyond that of other core races?

Yeah, I mean, if you're going for a character with a short existence violently ended at the hands of a lynch mob, religious order or regular militia, sure. Go for it.

Personally I don't think that's interesting or practical as a player character.

[Cameo]

Originally posted by droggen:

Pretty sure you can cast disguise on your self as well if you're that into the RP portion of the game.

You know it's interesting you bring that up, because early versions of tieflings were extremely subtle. They looked pretty much just like humans, with one or two very slight, subtle differences. You can't, however, hide gigantic horns, blood red skin, and glowing red eyes without the aid of magic though.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Agsmfhpjsfdgbnj:

Originally posted by Hobocop:

It's almost as if...that's exactly what makes the choice so interesting and full of narrative/storytelling possibilities beyond that of other core races?

Yeah, I mean, if you're going for a character with a short existence violently ended at the hands of a lynch mob, religious order or regular militia, sure. Go for it.

Personally I don't think that's interesting or practical as a player character.

No more or less than being able to play a low INT goober in the original Fallout games and somehow manage to save the day despite that.

[Cameo]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

No more or less than being able to play a low INT goober in the original Fallout games and somehow manage to save the day despite that.

That's not anymore believable, somehow. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Agsmfhpjsfdgbnj:

Originally posted by Hobocop:

No more or less than being able to play a low INT goober in the original Fallout games and somehow manage to save the day despite that.

That's not anymore believable, somehow. Two wrongs don't make a right.

And somehow, the old Fallout games were no weaker for it and manage to continue to be an enduring staple of the genre.

[Cameo]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

And somehow, the old Fallout games were no weaker for it and manage to continue to be an enduring staple of the genre.

That's one perception, and it's an extremely generous one. There are many people who believe Bethesda games are pretty much just trash only good for generating memes.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Agsmfhpjsfdgbnj:

Originally posted by Hobocop:

And somehow, the old Fallout games were no weaker for it and manage to continue to be an enduring staple of the genre.

That's one perception, and it's an extremely generous one. There are many people who believe Bethesda games are pretty much just trash only good for generating memes.

Why are you even talking about the Bethesda games? I'm talking about Fallout 1 & 2. Because the Bethesda entries really didn't do much in regards to low INT. Keep up.

Let's not forget that half-orcs have long been subject to the same type of prejudice, yet they're now a staple player option.

[Cameo]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Why are you even talking about the Bethesda games? I'm talking about Fallout 1 & 2. Keep up.

Let's not forget that half-orcs have long been subject to the same type of prejudice, yet they're now a staple player option.

Uh, no. Fallout 1 was published by Bethesda Softworks. Anyone with five seconds and an internet search engine can verify that. Keep up.

Half-orcs absolutely should face discrimination, that's something I've been saying for a long time. Orcs are monsters. But I could see half-orcs being treated more as second class citizens, or even slaves in some societies, rather than existential threats to everyone that need to be brutally put down with extreme prejudice like a demon person.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Agsmfhpjsfdgbnj:

Uh, no. Fallout 1 was published by Bethesda Softworks. Anyone with five seconds and an internet search engine can verify that. Keep up.

Incorrect. The original release was published by Interplay and had nothing to do with Bethesda. Particularly when it came to the development of their content.

I don't think there's much else to talk about if you're going to imply that Bethesda re-releasing Fallout 1 & 2 pretty much entirely unaltered aside from putting their name on the box as the current holders of the IP somehow taints their status as cRPG staples.

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by Agsmfhpjsfdgbnj:

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Why are you even talking about the Bethesda games? I'm talking about Fallout 1 & 2. Keep up.

Let's not forget that half-orcs have long been subject to the same type of prejudice, yet they're now a staple player option.

Uh, no. Fallout 1 was published by Bethesda Softworks. Anyone with five seconds and an internet search engine can verify that. Keep up.

Half-orcs absolutely should face discrimination, that's something I've been saying for a long time. Orcs are monsters. But I could see half-orcs being treated more as second class citizens, or even slaves in some societies, rather than existential threats to everyone that need to be brutally put down with extreme prejudice like a demon person.

First off Publishers aren't the ones who make the game, Developers are, either way you're wrong for both.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_(series)

Publisher(s)
Interplay Entertainment
(1997–2004)

The series' first title, Fallout, was developed by Black Isle Studios

[Cameo]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Incorrect. The original release was published by Interplay and had nothing to do with Bethesda. Particularly when it came to the development of their content.

I don't think there's much else to talk about if you're going to imply that Bethesda re-releasing Fallout 1 & 2 somehow taints their status as cRPG staples.

Oh, so it is.

That's not what I'm implying. I'm saying verisimilitude is critical to the suspension of disbelief, which is required for immersion, the single most important component to role-playing. Any setting that causes such sharp cognitive dissonance in the player as to shock them out of the experience, to break the suspension of disbelief, is committing an error.

[Cameo]

Originally posted by zacharyb:

First off Publishers aren't the ones who make the game, Developers are, either way you're wrong for both.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_(series)

Publisher(s)
Interplay Entertainment
(1997–2004)

The series' first title, Fallout, was developed by Black Isle Studios

See my response.

[Warren]

Originally posted by Agsmfhpjsfdgbnj:

Uh, no. Fallout 1 was published by Bethesda Softworks. Anyone with five seconds and an internet search engine can verify that. Keep up.

You must be a damn busy man if you didn't have five seconds to verify that.