Abjuration spells and temp HP looks to be broken?

[WeenerTuck813]

They’re not refreshing arcane Ward

And what’s more - if I cast Armor of Agathis while I have 1 temp HP it does nothing, and I stay at 1 temp HP

[xposethedarkside]

Not sure about how arcane ward works, but armor of Agathys has to be completely broken before you can cast it again and gain new temp hit points.
So like if level 1 armor of Agathys gives you 5 hit points, and you take 4 hit points of damage, the spell isn't broken yet, so you can't cast it again because it's still on you.

I also don't think you can stack different sources of temp hit points, like you can't cast armor of Agathys and then get dark ones blessing, or cast false life on yourself. One or the other might cancel out another spell, but they don't stack.

[Alealexi]

I don't think he is talking about stacking temp HP. I think he is saying recasting a spell that gives temp HP isn't superseding the old temp HP even if he rolled higher on the new roll.

[WeenerTuck813]

Originally posted by xposethedarkside:

Not sure about how arcane ward works, but armor of Agathys has to be completely broken before you can cast it again and gain new temp hit points.
So like if level 1 armor of Agathys gives you 5 hit points, and you take 4 hit points of damage, the spell isn't broken yet, so you can't cast it again because it's still on you.

I also don't think you can stack different sources of temp hit points, like you can't cast armor of Agathys and then get dark ones blessing, or cast false life on yourself. One or the other might cancel out another spell, but they don't stack.

Arcane Ward and Armor of Agathis have stacked since release. They still stack.

Also since release, if Armor of Agathis gives 10 temp HP and i take 9 damage, I have been able to recast rank 2 AoA to go back to 10 temp HP.

It is allowing me to cast it and taking the spell slot, and it’s not refreshing the temp HP. This is new.

Also, even if they made the change to where it has to break completely to recast - it should still refresh my arcane Ward for casting an Abjuration spell and it isnt

[xposethedarkside]

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

Also since release, if Armor of Agathis gives 10 temp HP and i take 9 damage, I have been able to recast rank 2 AoA to go back to 10 temp HP.

I have never seen this happen since the beginning. For me AOA has always had to be completely depleted of temp hit points before another cast would refresh them. I don't ever remember it being any different.

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

It is allowing me to cast it and taking the spell slot, and it’s not refreshing the temp HP. This is new.

This is how it's always been for me. Exactly as you describe it here.

[WeenerTuck813]

Originally posted by xposethedarkside:

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

Also since release, if Armor of Agathis gives 10 temp HP and i take 9 damage, I have been able to recast rank 2 AoA to go back to 10 temp HP.

I have never seen this happen since the beginning. For me AOA has always had to be completely depleted of temp hit points before another cast would refresh them. I don't ever remember it being any different.

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

It is allowing me to cast it and taking the spell slot, and it’s not refreshing the temp HP. This is new.

This is how it's always been for me. Exactly as you describe it here.

You sure?
I’ve done 2 entire playthroughs as a Gith Wiz refreshing my temp HP like that prior to patch 7. This is my 3rd playthrough like that

[xposethedarkside]

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

Originally posted by xposethedarkside:

I have never seen this happen since the beginning. For me AOA has always had to be completely depleted of temp hit points before another cast would refresh them. I don't ever remember it being any different.


This is how it's always been for me. Exactly as you describe it here.

You sure?
I’ve done 2 entire playthroughs as a Gith Wiz refreshing my temp HP like that prior to patch 7. This is my 3rd playthrough like that

I'm sure on my end, but neither am I calling you a liar, as I don't play wizard. I've logged nearly 600 hours in this game, most of it as a warlock, the remainder as a sorcerer, so AOA is on a small list of go to spells and that is how it works...for me.

That's doesn't mean it wasnt previously different for wizards. I can't see why it would be, but since I have so little time logged as a wizard, and given your experience, I must be open to the possibility.

If so, then it might have been changed more recently for the wizard, to reflect how it works for warlocks, and while none of this makes any sense as to why it was different to begin with, it is after all an EA, so these are the types of things that happen.

[WeenerTuck813]

On the bright side - just picked up sword of Justice

The shield spell DOES refresh all my temp HP

[guard65]

There is nothing in the spell script that says it will not refresh so perhaps a bug?.

data "StackId" "TEMPORARY_HP"
data "Boosts" "TemporaryHP(5)"
data "Passives" "ArmorOfAgathys"
data "RemoveConditions" "not HasTemporaryHP()"

[WeenerTuck813]

Ok further issue:

I put on shield of faith via Sword of Justice

I gain Arcane Ward 12 temp HP.

I put on Armor of Agathis

22 temp HP

I cast guidance, dropping shield of faith

Arcane Ward drops, I go down to 10 temp HP


100% that’s a bug or an incorrect implementation of the rules

[Mosey]

It's possible Larian noticed that Gith Wizard was massively OP with all the items they included in the game, hence the INT circlet being nerfed by a little and perhaps why Abjuration could have been changed to be less brokenly overpowered.

Arcane Ward certainly shouldn't stack with itself, for example, so it's good if that was removed.

Eldritch Knight is perhaps the worst class in the game simply because it is 100% outclassed by a Gith Wizard who put zero points into INT and took the abjuration school. Gith Wizards can wear medium armor (githyanki half-plate) and wield a greatsword (sword of justice) and get their STR up to 16 while ignoring INT thanks to the circlet. Any items you throw on top of that heap are just icing on the OP cake. And keep in mind that the shield of faith ability on Sword of Justice proc's arcane ward, and you can cast it as many times a day as you feel like it.

And frankly I think it's totally reasonable to force the player to deplete all their THP before gaining more of them since there are a lot of spells and abilities that give THP and one shouldn't be able to avoid all damage simply by stacking them.

[WeenerTuck813]

Originally posted by Mosey:

It's possible Larian noticed that Gith Wizard was massively OP with all the items they included in the game, hence the INT circlet being nerfed by a little and perhaps why Abjuration could have been changed to be less brokenly overpowered.

Arcane Ward certainly shouldn't stack with itself, for example, so it's good if that was removed.

Eldritch Knight is perhaps the worst class in the game simply because it is 100% outclassed by a Gith Wizard who put zero points into INT and took the abjuration school. Gith Wizards can wear medium armor (githyanki half-plate) and wield a greatsword (sword of justice) and get their STR up to 16 while ignoring INT thanks to the circlet. Any items you throw on top of that heap are just icing on the OP cake. And keep in mind that the shield of faith ability on Sword of Justice proc's arcane ward, and you can cast it as many times a day as you feel like it.

And frankly I think it's totally reasonable to force the player to deplete all their THP before gaining more of them since there are a lot of spells and abilities that give THP and one shouldn't be able to avoid all damage simply by stacking them.

So, yea and no

Temp HP from Armor of Agathis and Arcane Ward should stack, but the 10 cold damage returned should not proc on arcane Ward.

Also Gith wiz doesn’t totally outclass EK - EK has a much larger hit Die (d10 > d6) so they’ll have about 1/3 more HP. Also they can use any armor/weapons, and a shield. So their options are vastly expanded. I can’t toss Shattered flail and Absolutes Warboard on a Gith Wiz.

Having said all that, I don’t think some off these were intended by Larian. The real way to fix and properly nerf the Issue is to fix wizards being able to learn any scroll, they should not be able to learn Armor of Agathis at all.

[Mosey]

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

Also Gith wiz doesn’t totally outclass EK - EK has a much larger hit Die (d10 > d6) so they’ll have about 1/3 more HP. Also they can use any armor/weapons, and a shield. So their options are vastly expanded. I can’t toss Shattered flail and Absolutes Warboard on a Gith Wiz.

Not true when considering items, given that THP exist and EK class can't get abjuration's ward ability. And you don't need a shield when you can just replenish your THP for free at the cost of a bonus action.

If all the sources of THP weren't in the game, maybe, but they are so EK is largely irrelevant.

[WeenerTuck813]

Originally posted by Mosey:

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

Also Gith wiz doesn’t totally outclass EK - EK has a much larger hit Die (d10 > d6) so they’ll have about 1/3 more HP. Also they can use any armor/weapons, and a shield. So their options are vastly expanded. I can’t toss Shattered flail and Absolutes Warboard on a Gith Wiz.

Not true when considering items, given that THP exist and EK class can't get abjuration's ward ability. And you don't need a shield when you can just replenish your THP for free at the cost of a bonus action.

If all the sources of THP weren't in the game, maybe, but they are so EK is largely irrelevant.

I don’t totally disagree - EK sucks in 5e in general to be honest.

THP isn’t as good as HP, it can’t be healed.

And you can only replenish your ward OUTSIDE of combat like that, the SoJ sword is limited to 1 use per combat.

But in general you’re correct

There’s still buggy mechanics with the Gith Wiz in this patch, though.