Warlock Wisdom Saving Throws

[Ghiyan]

I've looked at guides online of how to build your warlock during character creation and they all say to focus on Charisma, then put the rest into dexterity and constitution. I see that Warlocks have Wisdom Saving throw proficiency as well as Charisma. Why wouldn't you want to put points into Wisdom?

[Hobocop]

That Wisdom Saving Throw proficiency is what you use to defend against Wisdom saving throws directed at your character. It doesn't have anything to do with how you force saving throws upon others, which is determined by your spell save DC, which for a warlock, is Charisma-based.

[RealDealBreaker]

You focus on cha, dex, and con becaue they are more important and the wis saving throw proficency will not come into play as often as dex/con benefits. Basically dex will increase you AC making you more difficult to hit with the vast majority of attacks plus help you with dex saves (one of the most common save types). Get hit less, take less damage and make fewer concentration checks. On that note, the investment in con is primarily to help with concentration checks (though the increased health is a nice bonus). Your wisdom save proficiency will make it increase naturally as your proficiency bonus goes up. Sure, you could invest points and ASI into wisdom to boost it even more, but rounding out you defence by investing in dex and con is better than being REALLY good at one type of save (admittedly WIS is at least a common save).

[Ghiyan]

Both Dissonant Whispers, and Tasha's hideous laughter have Wisdom as Attack/Save. If you chose The Great Old One wouldn't you want Wisdom for those?

[TheBlueFox]

Wisdom saves are exclusively DEFENSIVE. Tasha and dissonant whispers use your offensive casting stat, which is charisma.

If you got hit with an enemy casters tashas or DW, then it would use your defensive wisdom save to resist it though.

[Ghiyan]

I have 100 hrs in this game, and i don't know if i'll ever understand the nomenclature. I kinda understand what you guys are saying, but then again I kinda don't lol. I appreciate the input though, thanks

[TheBlueFox]

Sall good. Any questions we'll answer as best we can

[Alealexi]

Originally posted by Ghiyan:

I have 100 hrs in this game, and i don't know if i'll ever understand the nomenclature. I kinda understand what you guys are saying, but then again I kinda don't lol. I appreciate the input though, thanks

Dissonant Whispers requires your target to make a wisdom saving throw. It has nothing to do on your end. The DC of the saving throw your target has to beat is determined by 8+ proficiency (2) + your charisma which is probably 3. So the wisdom DC your target has to meet or beat is 13. All your offensive spells DC & to hit is determined by your charisma modifier as a warlock.

[Aven]

Originally posted by Ghiyan:

Both Dissonant Whispers, and Tasha's hideous laughter have Wisdom as Attack/Save. If you chose The Great Old One wouldn't you want Wisdom for those?

This confused me as well.
I don't understand why it would say "Attack/Save" instead of just "Save" or "Saving throw: Wisdom" or something like that
Using the word attack like that is easily interpreted as "the attack stat of the spell"

Maybe it's an early access thing and wording will change? Or is there a specific reason for using the "Attack/Save" terminology?

Spells like Dancing lights also specify: "Cast ability: Intelligence" if you aren't a wizard (which makes intelligence the default casting ability)
To my knowledge that spell never requires a roll so it isn't modified by any stats, so the specification is redundant. Or am I missing something?

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Ghiyan:

I've looked at guides online of how to build your warlock during character creation and they all say to focus on Charisma, then put the rest into dexterity and constitution. I see that Warlocks have Wisdom Saving throw proficiency as well as Charisma. Why wouldn't you want to put points into Wisdom?

Charisma is a Warlock's casting modifier.

How saving throws work is you take a base number of 8, add your proficiency bonus and your spellcasting modifier, in a warlock's case that is charisma. That gives you the number the enemy needs to beat.

Putting points in wisdom won't actually increase the DC for the saving throw that enemies need to make. In fact, if you put less points in charisma then it will be easier for them to make the save because the number will be lower.

The type of save they make is based on the affect of the spell. Dodging traps use dexterity saving throws. resisting poisons use constitution saving throws being a couple of examples.

Saving throws are your defense against outside affects.

[zenebatos1]

Originally posted by Ghiyan:

I have 100 hrs in this game, and i don't know if i'll ever understand the nomenclature. I kinda understand what you guys are saying, but then again I kinda don't lol. I appreciate the input though, thanks

There is a clear difference between SAving rolls that YOU make, and saving rolls that you Impose on OTHERS

WArlocks are proficient with Wisdom and CHarisma saving throws.

WIch means that they are better at resisting mental attacks and charms.

When YOU are targeted by Tasha's laugther, YOU make a WIS save, since you're proficient with it, you have WIS MOD +Proficiency Bonus (so if you have like 12 in WIS score, thats +1 and if level 1-4, your proficiency bonus is +2, so total of WIS save is +3)

AS a Spellcaster, you have your Spellcasting Ability.

Wich is the Ability score/bonus you use to cast spells.

Wizards use Intelligence, Warlocks uses CHA( so does Bards, Sorcerors and Paladins), clerics uses WIS.

You only have ONE SPellcasting ability per class, so has a Warlock, it is CHA.
So when you have to roll for attack with a spell, you use your CHA MOD (wich should be your highest score possible so at least a +3 or 4) +Proficiency bonus, so +2= +5 to Hit with your spells.

There's 2 types of spells in D&D, attack roll spells, so you roll a D20+Spell ability+Bonus
And Saving throws Imposing spells, where in the Description of the spell, it will tell what kind of Saving throw the spell forces the target to make.

The Saving throw of the target must be equal or higher than your Spell Save DC for the save to be succesfull.

Your spell save DC is the difficulty of the save that the target needs to reach to be safe from your magic, the higher your Spellcasting ability bonus and your proficiency bonus, the higher the Save DC, the more difficult it is for the target to be save from harm from your spells.

Your spell save dc is 8+Spellcasting ability MOD+Proficiency bonus, so 8+3(CHA)+2(Prof.Bonus)= 13

Wich yes it isn't impressive at low level, but thats how it is, the enemies Proficiency saves are also at max +3 or 4 at this level.(you really need to get between lvl 8 and 12 to get enemies with +6 or 8 to a save)

So when YOU cast Tasha's laugther at a Target, they are forced to roll a WIS save with the goal to reach been 13 or higher.

If the target has Low WIS score and no WIS save proficiency, then it has higher chances to fail the save.

Each spell uses its own Save, for example while Tasha's laugther impose WIS saves, Fireball will impose a DEX save.

While other Spells will impose a CON save or an INT save.

Whatever is the case, YOU will always your spellcasting ability from your class, wich in the Warlocks case is CHA.

There is a pattern on what kind of spells uses what kind of saves.

If it implies Wind or Gravity, it will usually force a STR or CON save.
If it is FIre, lightning attacks, it will usually uses DEX.
Mental attacks can target INT or WIS, also Illusions.
Charms and manipulation of the mind will usually use CHA.
Anything that is poison/venom/diseases/sickness is usually CON.

Its not 100% accurate since some spells or effects can require more than one save, but they are rarer than the others.

[Ghiyan]

Originally posted by Aven:

Originally posted by Ghiyan:

Both Dissonant Whispers, and Tasha's hideous laughter have Wisdom as Attack/Save. If you chose The Great Old One wouldn't you want Wisdom for those?

This confused me as well.
I don't understand why it would say "Attack/Save" instead of just "Save" or "Saving throw: Wisdom" or something like that
Using the word attack like that is easily interpreted as "the attack stat of the spell"

Maybe it's an early access thing and wording will change? Or is there a specific reason for using the "Attack/Save" terminology?

Spells like Dancing lights also specify: "Cast ability: Intelligence" if you aren't a wizard (which makes intelligence the default casting ability)
To my knowledge that spell never requires a roll so it isn't modified by any stats, so the specification is redundant. Or am I missing something?

This is exactly what confuses me. The Attack part in the Attack/Save

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Ghiyan:

Originally posted by Aven:

This confused me as well.
I don't understand why it would say "Attack/Save" instead of just "Save" or "Saving throw: Wisdom" or something like that
Using the word attack like that is easily interpreted as "the attack stat of the spell"

Maybe it's an early access thing and wording will change? Or is there a specific reason for using the "Attack/Save" terminology?

Spells like Dancing lights also specify: "Cast ability: Intelligence" if you aren't a wizard (which makes intelligence the default casting ability)
To my knowledge that spell never requires a roll so it isn't modified by any stats, so the specification is redundant. Or am I missing something?

This is exactly what confuses me. The Attack part in the Attack/Save

For each class they have a spellcasting attribute. That one attribute affects every spell they cast.

If there is an attack roll, you treat it like you're making an attack with a weapon, but instead of using strength or dexterity you would use your charisma as a warlock plus your proficiency bonus.

So, if you were to cast Eldritch Blast (a warlock exclusive cantrip) you would use your spellcasting as an attack and not be a saving throw for the enemy to beat. You would roll a d20, add your spellcasting modifier plus your proficiency to that roll and try to meet or surpass their AC.

[Ghiyan]

So how I'm understanding it is that if something shows as Attack/Save: Wisdom (or anything else). My character is essentially Attacking that certain attribute of the enemy. So they will be relying on their Wisdom in that case to defend against my attack. Is that a decent analogy?

[xposethedarkside]

Originally posted by Ghiyan:

I have 100 hrs in this game, and i don't know if i'll ever understand the nomenclature. I kinda understand what you guys are saying, but then again I kinda don't lol. I appreciate the input though, thanks

I had the same problem when I first started playing this game. Honestly the thing that helped me the most was snagging the 5e Players Handbook off Amazon and I just devoured it from cover to cover.
Larian does take some liberties with the rules, but the core mechanics are still there. It made a drastic difference in how quickly I was able to understand the game at a high level.

[xposethedarkside]

Originally posted by Ghiyan:

So how I'm understanding it is that if something shows as Attack/Save: Wisdom (or anything else). My character is essentially Attacking that certain attribute of the enemy. So they will be relying on their Wisdom in that case to defend against my attack. Is that a decent analogy?

A good way of looking at it, though perhaps it might be better to say it's a representation of the enemies ability to use that attribute to defend against your attack, not so much that you are attacking the attribute directly.