Baldur's Gate 3
Larian feels like the new torch / flag bearer of the RPG community
So, this is part observation, part appreciation. I've not completed EA BG3 yet because I keep making new characters and being distracted by other games because welcome to ADHD of jumping around from game to game. However, the more I play this the more I find new conversation. New directions and out comes in conversation I already had. At one point I even tried to push past the druids and they all, and I do mean all, became aggressive and suddenly I was combating the entity of the druids. Didn't end well.

My point is that this game, even for someone like me who knows so little of D&D, is amazing from an RPG experience. Granted I am now asking friends who do know a lot about D&D so many questions as I do love learning about the lore and world. Even the companions are super well written, starting off as cautiously or aggressively private and with the right conversation? Slowly opening up to you. Gale currently is my favorite character, reminds me of a slightly less sarcastic and energetic Dorian from Dragon Age: Inquisition. I mean I love the fact that even your personally created character can affect dialog as well as your class. The reactions to my being a drow, for instance, have created some interesting insight in the world that is Baldur's Gate.

Also the fact that Larian seems to be sticking to not rushing the game out and trying to get everything right. The hotfixes, the slow but meaningful updates like dropping the druid update. The fact that they are testing and retesting not only on their end but through our experiences through the early access is refreshing and giving me a lot of hope.

All of this makes me feel like, right now, that Larian is the one leading the charge in continuing the heavily story based RPGs we love. Bioware, sadly, has fallen since Inquisition though the release of Mass Effect Legendary and the updates they did there was step in the right direction. I know a lot of people, myself included, felt the same of CDPR after The Witcher 3 and with Cyberpunk but they dropped the ball there and disappointed so many people because they were promising us what Larian is doing right now. They told us that the game would come out when it's ready and not before and then it was released before it was clearly ready.

I'd just like to say, even if this game takes another year to be completely released, I'd be happy to wait. This game is already so breath taking with it's scenery and cinematics. The characters and their personalities. Hell, even just wandering around and exploring every inch is rewarding as I continually find new things. It's honestly almost as much fun to explore and wander around than it is to continue the progressing the story and the various conversations.

So, in short, thank you Larian and keep up the amazing work because so many of us are behind you and in for the long haul with this amazing creation you are in the process of giving us.
Отредактировано Mr. Phil Good; 10 июн. 2021 г. в 10:52
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Сообщения 115 из 107
Torchbearer is apropos considering how much Larian love fire and explosions.

But yeah, I started playing D&D in 1986 at the age of 9 and stopped playind during 2nd Edition (and still haven't returned to TT, although my roommate is a big 5e fan). I also fell in love with the Ultima rpg's, particularly IV - VII.

I picked up Divinity Original Sin after BG3's announcement and I have to say it sent up red flags for me. I did not like the way every encounter was balanced around hitting an explosive barrel to win. In fact, I never really got past the starting area of Cyseal (and surrounds) because I detested the way Larian balances combat that much. That said, everything else about the game was really cool. I dig their writing, narration, animation and environment design.

At first, due to how much I disliked DoS, I was highly skeptical of BG3, and then I gave Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder: Kingmaker a shot too. I absolutely despised those games, even moreso than DoS. Pathfinder is just a mess of poor balance issues and bloat (this seems to be endemic of the 3.5/Pathfinder TT system itself) and largely boils down to pre-buffing before combat and then steamrolling everything. If you don't create a party focused on buffing then you will lose and this really irritates me as it's a form of railroading. In BG3, while buffs are certainly good, you can still play without heavily investing in them (in the majority of my playthroughs, I rarely ever use Bless, for example). I think that the idea of bounded accuracy might have something to do with this, and I like it. Pillars of Eternity just got boring for me rather quickly, but also had a few balance issues as well.

So I finally decided to give BG3 a try, even though I had misgivings due to DoS, and also the game being in EA. But I watched a lot of YT videos of gameplay first and it honestly looked like a lot fun, so I pulled the trigger anyway.

And I can't say I was disappointed. In fact, I might even say that BG3 is currently my favorite game. I haven't enjoyed an rpg this much since Ultima VII, and the Ultima series is my "golden standard" for what makes an rpg great.

That said, Larian still has a lot to learn about combat balance, especially in a D&D game. They have taken liberties with the action economy that is seriously unbalancing the game, and they really like to overtune encounters to make them very deadly.

At the same time, the game world is peppered with an overabundance of exploits, the primary offender which is explosive barrels and fire. Larian needs to learn to use these things moderately, since their overuse begins to make them feel cheap and gimmicky. An explosive barrel or two per Act is ok, particularly if it takes some skill to use properly, but Larrian has strewn these things literally throughout the entirety of Act 1. It needs to be dialed back - a lot!

And then many of the actions that were turned into bonus actions (Jump/Disengage, Shove, Hide, etc.) needs to be ironed out too because they are highly exploitable and turn combat into a joke. Exploiting these mechanics lets you solo the game easily, with any class. We need options to selectively toggle all of these homebrewed rules.
Отредактировано Pan Darius Cassandra; 10 июн. 2021 г. в 10:58
At this point it's not clear if it's D&D that benefits the most from BG3 or if it's Larian.

D&D video game was a dead IP for video games, and it's not games as Solastas that could have change that.

On another side, without D&D no BG3 and without BG3 the attention put on the game can't be the same and from far.

RPG community isn't your community, there isn't one RPG community or take as a whole. How much important will be BG3 for the whole RPG community, you can't say yet. But for sure, it's a major challenge to reach the same level of influence that had and has Skyrim, and but less the Witcher 3 on base already widely influenced by Skyrim.

This OP RPG community has no clear name, CRPG tag attempt is a big fail, see Steam games tagged CRPG and you'll quickly understand the level of failure of the tag. How important will be the game for this <unnamed tag> RpG community? You can't say. XCOM1 had a huge influence, and you can even wonder if the massive flux of TB games that followed isn't in large part a XCOM1 influence.

But can BG3 reach a similar level of influence, you can't say. It could end as the amazing huge project RPG making any other RPG with a similar approach quite pale, discouraging many projects similar, and leading to bankrupt many dev trying compete.

At opposite if it reaches an amazing amount of sells and I'm talking of numbers like 10M, the industry from indie to AAA will hardly decipher the real cause and then both D&D and many special Larian design approaches will get a huge boost in term of influence.

I just want great rpgs who makes them makes no difference to me... NEver understood this fan hype for studios. Nothing good comes of it.
I applaud Larian for developing RPGs without becoming a smoldering crater along the way, that sets them pretty far above the average team nowadays. DOS:2 was pretty good too. That's all I have to add really
Автор сообщения: dolby
I just want great rpgs who makes them makes no difference to me... Never understood this fan hype for studios. Nothing good comes of it.
This is the correct opinion
Автор сообщения: dolby
I just want great rpgs who makes them makes no difference to me... NEver understood this fan hype for studios. Nothing good comes of it.
Yeah but it's no way related to video games, pick music, anything, it's the same, there are cults of personalities quite past the product.

A good example would be the impossibility to enjoy a product because the artist behind has a personality not liked.
Who makes western RPG's? There are now 3 studios who make AAA rpg's- Bioware, Bethesda and CDPR. Obsidion maybe joins them with MS backing and their game Avowed. Larian joins with BG3. Some may consider From Software games to be RPG's and they would be AAA. Ubi with AC games becoming more rpg-like are definitely AAA. The next tier, Owlcat and inXile?

There just aren't that many studios who are big enough to put together a large in depth RPG and have the interest.

If you want my real answer? I would say Bethesda is the standard bearer with many proven games and 2 AAA rpg's in development plus backing from MS.

Автор сообщения: Dorok
Автор сообщения: dolby
A good example would be the impossibility to enjoy a product because the artist behind has a personality not liked.

.............or the games lead designer takes the game in a direction you hate - see Pillars of Eternity - Chris Avellone - and the way he designed attributes to work. I hated that, I hated the way classes worked, and hated how boring combat was, hated how some classes used pain to fuel their abilities. I couldn't get past maybe a third of the way through it, maybe less.

Some people like PoE, but for me it was a steaming pile with a pretty facade. Shame really, because I had looked forward to that release a lot. I find it hard to believe that this was the same guy who worked on KOTOR and Fallout 2..........................maybe he didn't have as much overall control on those.

As for being at the RPG forefront, I still see Dragon Age and Skyrim as the biggest RPG world creators with the Fallout series a little behind them........................but I certainly liked Larians earlier efforts (DKS, DOS 1&2).
Отредактировано Chillearth; 11 июн. 2021 г. в 4:28
Автор сообщения: Dorok
Автор сообщения: dolby
I just want great rpgs who makes them makes no difference to me... NEver understood this fan hype for studios. Nothing good comes of it.
Yeah but it's no way related to video games, pick music, anything, it's the same, there are cults of personalities quite past the product.

A good example would be the impossibility to enjoy a product because the artist behind has a personality not liked.


i know how things are in production studio and there is nothing fancy about it.
hard work with long hours noramlly worth it cos the pay is ok and you have cool coworkers but i guess the last and the first are true for most jobs.

i don't care about "personality"...i care about product or actions of people.
This is why i never bought a music CD in my life.
i could never buy 12 songs just cos i liked one song from artist. Same reason i think concerts are just whatever but way less so, cos they can be a good visual event.

it's just how i am, i take things for what they are and not what they represents.
and no i do not have a fav. sport team in football.

i guess that comes with going through a long war as young adult, split country one side killing the other and vice versa. it changed how i see things.
Отредактировано dolby; 11 июн. 2021 г. в 4:55
Автор сообщения: dulany67
Who makes western RPG's? There are now 3 studios who make AAA rpg's- Bioware, Bethesda and CDPR. Obsidion maybe joins them with MS backing and their game Avowed. Larian joins with BG3. Some may consider From Software games to be RPG's and they would be AAA. Ubi with AC games becoming more rpg-like are definitely AAA. The next tier, Owlcat and inXile?

There just aren't that many studios who are big enough to put together a large in depth RPG and have the interest.

If you want my real answer? I would say Bethesda is the standard bearer with many proven games and 2 AAA rpg's in development plus backing from MS.
For me:
- Bethesda, CDPR (both widely above the melee, for me not much estimate for both, I won't bother on their next or current until very cheap sales)
- Ubisoft (not played, first RPG from a long live dev not doing RPG, too many hardcore RPG players confirming the RPG mood to suspect it's a false one).
- Larian (still far from the same budget level and amount of sells, but it seems it could change with BG3)
- Piranha Bytes (yep indie RPG playing in the same arena as the big boys, no clue how they can do that)
- Warhorse Studios (not played and for now only one RPG, but for now is in AAA list)

Then the next tiers:
- Obsidian, InExile (Obsidian for last decade point of view, and nope their last RPG wasn't in the AAA lands)

Past that, it's more indie.
Автор сообщения: Phyzzlesaurus Rex
So, this is part observation, part appreciation. I've not completed EA BG3 yet because I keep making new characters and being distracted by other games because welcome to ADHD of jumping around from game to game. However, the more I play this the more I find new conversation. New directions and out comes in conversation I already had. At one point I even tried to push past the druids and they all, and I do mean all, became aggressive and suddenly I was combating the entity of the druids. Didn't end well.

My point is that this game, even for someone like me who knows so little of D&D, is amazing from an RPG experience. Granted I am now asking friends who do know a lot about D&D so many questions as I do love learning about the lore and world. Even the companions are super well written, starting off as cautiously or aggressively private and with the right conversation? Slowly opening up to you. Gale currently is my favorite character, reminds me of a slightly less sarcastic and energetic Dorian from Dragon Age: Inquisition. I mean I love the fact that even your personally created character can affect dialog as well as your class. The reactions to my being a drow, for instance, have created some interesting insight in the world that is Baldur's Gate.

Also the fact that Larian seems to be sticking to not rushing the game out and trying to get everything right. The hotfixes, the slow but meaningful updates like dropping the druid update. The fact that they are testing and retesting not only on their end but through our experiences through the early access is refreshing and giving me a lot of hope.

All of this makes me feel like, right now, that Larian is the one leading the charge in continuing the heavily story based RPGs we love. Bioware, sadly, has fallen since Inquisition though the release of Mass Effect Legendary and the updates they did there was step in the right direction. I know a lot of people, myself included, felt the same of CDPR after The Witcher 3 and with Cyberpunk but they dropped the ball there and disappointed so many people because they were promising us what Larian is doing right now. They told us that the game would come out when it's ready and not before and then it was released before it was clearly ready.

I'd just like to say, even if this game takes another year to be completely released, I'd be happy to wait. This game is already so breath taking with it's scenery and cinematics. The characters and their personalities. Hell, even just wandering around and exploring every inch is rewarding as I continually find new things. It's honestly almost as much fun to explore and wander around than it is to continue the progressing the story and the various conversations.

So, in short, thank you Larian and keep up the amazing work because so many of us are behind you and in for the long haul with this amazing creation you are in the process of giving us.



LOL yea were all trying to get that past euphoria of our first true RPG memories of another world. Mine happenned to be Ultima 4. I remember freaking out, the cloth map, the awesome amount of disks during install that felt like a new world, and the 100s of hours playing, getting all those virtues up. Also I think not having internet and such easy cheats added to the excitement. I can remember being stuck for weeks on something and the feeling when our loop would figure it out for the first time. That just doesn't happen any more...

Автор сообщения: dulany67
Who makes western RPG's? There are now 3 studios who make AAA rpg's- Bioware, Bethesda and CDPR. Obsidion maybe joins them with MS backing and their game Avowed. Larian joins with BG3. Some may consider From Software games to be RPG's and they would be AAA. Ubi with AC games becoming more rpg-like are definitely AAA. The next tier, Owlcat and inXile?

There just aren't that many studios who are big enough to put together a large in depth RPG and have the interest.

If you want my real answer? I would say Bethesda is the standard bearer with many proven games and 2 AAA rpg's in development plus backing from MS.

Obsidian already had Outer Words, although that was not their main team I believe. I didn't care much about it, but I'm very interested in what they will do with Avowed. I've been very disappointed with inXile's last 3 games, haven't managed to finish any of them, but I'm planning on trying Torment one more time.

There is also Spiders, which I believe graduated to AAA with Greedfall, but I found that game to be lacking at best.

Assuming TES6 is one of them, on which other game is Bethesda working?
Автор сообщения: Aria Athena
There is also Spiders, which I believe graduated to AAA with Greedfall, but I found that game to be lacking at best.

Sad but true
Автор сообщения: Aria Athena

Assuming TES6 is one of them, on which other game is Bethesda working?
Their.next game is a new ip Starfield. Leaks this week say they will announce a late 2022 release.
Автор сообщения: Tinball
Автор сообщения: Dorok
At this point it's not clear if it's D&D that benefits the most from BG3 or if it's Larian.

Larian stands to gain more than Hasbro. How many D&D players are there? This will get marketed heavily to the D&D crowd, which numbers 10 million players around the world! How big is Larian?
So you are saying it's a pointless game for D&D and only Larian wins a lot from the game.

You have a very false point of view of D&D fame for video game RPG, I can list you a long list of low sells since a long long time. And I can add Solastas to this list.
Отредактировано Dorok; 11 июн. 2021 г. в 7:32
Nothing against Larian, but I have much more faith in Owlcat Studios. Although that is largely due to the fact that I admire and respect ambitious games and studios. BG3 will be a great game, but it is not ambitious.
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Дата создания: 10 июн. 2021 г. в 10:40
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