Shillelagh cantrip needs some reworking

[Fistimus Maximus]

Do you think they will have it so it scales as you level as by level 5 it becomes the weakest cantrip and becomes unusable for higher levels. Do you think larian will fix this?

[TheBlueFox]

shillelagh doesn't scale though, it just makes you use Wisdom instead of Strength to fight with a Quarterstaff and makes a quarterstaff a d8 weapon and qualifies it as magical for the purpose of getting past resistance to non-magical weapons

[EvilEd]

I wouldn't call it the worse cantrip in the game. It's there for druids when they run out of wildshapes and find themselves in combat so they aren't completely useless in melee. It actually gives better damage potential over the rest of the druid cantrips at lower and even middle levels, except maybe poison spray. But poison spray also is vs a save instead of making an attack roll, only has a 10 ft range, and poison resistance is actually one of the more common resistances.

[Fistimus Maximus]

Should scale.

[Hobocop]

Nah. Having something like Shillelagh scale creeps dangerously close into the martial character's turf of hitting things with sticks. Why have a fighter when you can just be a druid or cleric with the appropriate domain, still wear armor+have a shield, and swing for multiple D8s of physical damage that bypasses non-magical resistance/immunity and scales with your casting stat?

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by Fistimus Maximus:

Do you think they will have it so it scales as you level as by level 5 it becomes the weakest cantrip and becomes unusable for higher levels. Do you think larian will fix this?

Letting shillelagh scale would be a balance nightmare. Think about it, there would be no reason for a fighter NOT to take the magic initiate feat to get shillelagh then start walloping enemies. Shillelagh scales with number of attacks. Adding increasing dice scaling (standard cantrip scaling) on top would let a level 11 fighter with the dueling fighting style make 3 attacks at 3d8 EACH. Assuming each attack hits, that is an average of 3(3x4.5+2+ability score modifier)= 46.5 + 3xASM in a round (and this number would get bigger at level 17 when fighters get their fourth attack, 80 + 4xASM). Compare this to a fighter using great weapon master, a 11th level fighter with GWM and using a greatsword (2d6 which is a higher average damage than the d12 greataxe), 3x(2x3.5+10+ASM) = 51 + 3xASM (17th level that is an average of 68 + 4xASM) BUT you have to remember that to get the +10 damage on hit with GWM, you take a -5 penalty to hit (and therefore hit less frequently). On top of GWM hitting less often due to the -5 penalty to hit, a GWM cannot also have a shield and thus is also going to be hit more often. The trade off of hitting less often but harder and being hit more often is what makes it balanced. A magic initiate fighter using shillelagh pays the same oppurtunity cost (i.e., 1 feat) but deals MORE damage on average (at high levels, even more once you factor in accuracy) and can be paired with a shield.

[Indure]

Why do you believe shillelagh is underperforming? It bolsters a club/staff to 1d8 which makes it comparative to a martial wrapon. Its magical for overcoming damage resistances and it uses wisdom towards chance to hit and bonus damage.

This helps druids tremendously by allowing them to happily dump strength and maintain chance to hit with weapons. As for scaling, why does it need to. By level 5 druids are going to be more dangerous either wildshaping or casting magic.

[Fistimus Maximus]

check this thread on reddit which explains the issue
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/a14vt9/am_i_missing_something_the_shillelagh_cantrip/

[Fistimus Maximus]

Originally posted by Indure:

Why do you believe shillelagh is underperforming? It bolsters a club/staff to 1d8 which makes it comparative to a martial wrapon. Its magical for overcoming damage resistances and it uses wisdom towards chance to hit and bonus damage.

This helps druids tremendously by allowing them to happily dump strength and maintain chance to hit with weapons. As for scaling, why does it need to. By level 5 druids are going to be more dangerous either wildshaping or casting magic.

thats the point after level 5 you wont use it again because it becomes subpar, I just wanted it to be viable later.

[The Juicy Dangler]

It's shillelagh time!!!

[Fistimus Maximus]

All I wanted was the biggest stick in the valley.

[Indure]

Originally posted by Fistimus Maximus:

Originally posted by Indure:

Why do you believe shillelagh is underperforming? It bolsters a club/staff to 1d8 which makes it comparative to a martial wrapon. Its magical for overcoming damage resistances and it uses wisdom towards chance to hit and bonus damage.

This helps druids tremendously by allowing them to happily dump strength and maintain chance to hit with weapons. As for scaling, why does it need to. By level 5 druids are going to be more dangerous either wildshaping or casting magic.

thats the point after level 5 you wont use it again because it becomes subpar, I just wanted it to be viable later.

It is always viable. For a bonus action and no spell slot a druid can be as accurate with a melee weapon as a fighter with no attribute investment. This is massive, and would be the number 1 cantrip for clerics if they could get it.

The only cantrip on the druid's spell list that is better at damage is Produce Flame and it will have similar damage to shillelagh up until lvl 11, which is basically all of BG3. In terms of average damage a 2d8 equals a 1d8+5.

If you add magic weapons into the balance, Shillelagh will outperfrom Producd Flame until level 11 and still be reasonably tied with it past 11 depending on the effects of the magic weapon.

My original comment on not using it post level 5, should be taken in the same context as any cantrip. You use them to feel a gap when you want to conserve spell slots, not as a staple to your damage output.

[Alealexi]

Originally posted by Fistimus Maximus:

Originally posted by Indure:

Why do you believe shillelagh is underperforming? It bolsters a club/staff to 1d8 which makes it comparative to a martial wrapon. Its magical for overcoming damage resistances and it uses wisdom towards chance to hit and bonus damage.

This helps druids tremendously by allowing them to happily dump strength and maintain chance to hit with weapons. As for scaling, why does it need to. By level 5 druids are going to be more dangerous either wildshaping or casting magic.

thats the point after level 5 you wont use it again because it becomes subpar, I just wanted it to be viable later.

Technically in 5e you can combine Shillelagh with other weapon cantrips like Green Flame Blade & Booming Blade. It also helps some other classes like cleric which due to some subclasses do not having martial weapon proficiency.

The way it works in BG3 tells me it won't work that way.

[Fistimus Maximus]

yes Ive seen a few builds that use those but doubt we will get that sort of depth.