Experienced DnDers who dislike the game

[Gaindalf the Whey]

I've seen a lot of comments saying that you'll like the game if you liked DoS 1/2, don't know much about DnD lore or don't expect much DnD to be true to / in the game.

As someone who doesn't know much about DnD lore and only just started learning, what is it exactly that BG3 offers that doesn't make it true to DnD, or rather, what doesn't it offer?

I'm personally very much enjoying the game and enjoying learning about DnD. I'd like to see what you think.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Soft Lockpick:

Originally posted by Diedkid:

But it is. It takes place in the forgotten realms, stays true to 5e's lore, and uses most of the same rules as 5e minus a few changes and additions. Now those changes definitely have a impact on how the game feels, but its still a dnd 5e game, or in this case, a pizza at its core.

Just because someone changes how the sauce to cheese ratio and adds pineapple and garlic to it doesn't mean it still isn't a pizza.

If it has pineapple it is not a pizza. No ifs ands or buts.

You have a rather rigid point of view. Hawaiian style pizza has pineapple and is a favorite of many, including my brother's.

I personally don't like pineapple so I would agree with you on this point if you weren't treating pineapple as the be-all end-all of what is and is not a pizza like it's a fact.

[Alealexi]

Originally posted by Soft Lockpick:

Originally posted by Something completely different:

Pizza Hawaii would like a word with you.

I'd like a word with it for not being pizza and still using the name.

Doesn't change the fact it is pizza. Just accept it.

[Mr Fred]

Pretty damn simple its because its made under an entry level beginner friendly edition that streamlined most rule ending up with everything playing and feeling the same.

My 2nd full playthrough was made exactly to highlight how sad dnd 5e is, made a mage with 16 str and con and breeze through all the content never casting a single spell. In older proper edition this wouldnt work because a proper fighter would have higher chance to hit and tons of feats ahead of the caster.

If youre a new player and HATE having to use your brain once in a while this is the game for you.

[guard65]

I respect where you are coming from and I bust on programmers all day.

However if you are not going to take the bull by the horns and do it yourself. You are going to have to eat what you are severed

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Soft Lockpick:

The point I was making is people who came for a 5e game and got something other than a 5e game are going to chafe at it. And you can try to pick nits and say "It's not different enough in MY opinion" as though everyone should share it but it is objectively not a 5e game when they change the rules away from 5e. And the further that line is away from the core RAW the more ways they can make that case. But for some people it may not need to deviate that far overall.

It's too different from RAW in your opinion. It's just fine in mine. Neither of us are wrong. We have different preferences.

The real issue that people are responding to isn't that you dislike the game or think it has deviated too much from Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 or D&D 5th Edition. It's that you are presenting your opinions as if they are objective facts when they are nothing more than subjective preferences.

Example.

But that does not make it opinion when they say "it isn't 5e" - it is factually not 5e. Inarguably.

That is just your opinion.

As it is my opinion that Baldur's Gate 3 is a great D&D 5th Edition game.

[zero]

trying to use a meme dismissing an idea when the idea..has the name of the product inside of it is a very bad use of it.

"its not pizza if it has pineapple on it" is dumb, so is saying "its not D&D if its in video game form", still pizza, still D&D, even if you don't like the toppings, so to speak.

[Something completely different]

5e naturally has critters with high hp and low ac. Nothing with that trend changes in the game. Aside that you see a lot of critters with goblin leaders stats who aren't all called goblin leaders but just have names which seems to make people confuse them with common goblins.
Common goblins however don't make good enemies for a lv 3-4 party unless they hugely outnumber the party (slow combat ahead) or surprise the party (which people probably don't enjoy either if it happens a lot.)

The enemies feel 5E to me. What doesn't is some home brewn rules (jumping that comes with a free disengage, sneaking and spotting and interrupts not working well at all and the altitude modifiers to attack.)

If Larian fixes those issues then I'd happily argue BG3 is a 5e game. Until then it's close but not quite yet there.

[Hobocop]

The DMG, among several other similar statements in nearly every rulebook, states that the DM can make any changes they want to suit their table, so long as the players are informed beforehand.

And Larian has not been shy about the liberties they've been taking with the rules. Nor has Jeremy Crawford.

This doesn't make it any less 5e, and whether or not you're okay with that is personal preference, since Larian isn't bound by Adventurer's League mandates.

I'm not yet convinced that what we're seeing currently is going to be the final state of things, especially as more classes, spells, and abilities get added.

[NixAhmose]

Originally posted by Soft Lockpick:

If someone came to this game for a 5e experience it has deviated from 5e. Whether that personally bothers you or not is opinion. The fact that it has is... fact.

Saying that it is has deviated from 5e's ruleset is indeed a fact.
Saying that's its not a 5e game is objectively wrong.

Even ignoring that 5e was specifically designed to be a very modifiable and homebrew-heavy system, the game still uses 5e's ruleset and mechanics as the foundation for its gameplay and is still well over 70% similar in terms of raw rules. It also uses the same lore, monsters, setting, and characters as 5e's main setting the Forgotten Realms.

By your logic the original Baldur's Gate games weren't dnd games because they were in rtwp rather than turn based.

[Soft Lockpick]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

The DMG, among several other similar statements in nearly every rulebook, states that the DM can make any changes they want to suit their table, so long as the players are informed beforehand.

And Larian has not been shy about the liberties they've been taking with the rules. Nor has Jeremy Crawford.

This doesn't make it any less 5e

Yes, it does.

Look... end of the day if you have to lean on a rule that could be used to call Monopoly a 5th edition game you've lost the argument.

That rule exists for two main reasons. To provide conflict resolution flexibility to the DM when the pace of the game is disrupted by looking up the exact rules. And to let the DM do things like ban classes that wouldn't be fitting in their own setting, or that they do not adapt well against and so couldn't provide a good experience for.

Video games are not tabletop. There is no conflict resolution issue, so half of the reason for the rule is right out. The other half, customization to setting or to restrict players who would play with abilities you are bad at countering and the like, should not be a factor in a big title like this. Bring in the help to do it right, they're working directly with Wizards.

But seriously... the rule you're leaning on to justify this could be used to call every game system that exists 5th edition D&D. And if that's your final defense you really have been backed to the cliff.

I doubt you'll acknowledge that... and so we might just have to call this one. But it's the truth.

[zero]

Originally posted by Diedkid:

Originally posted by Soft Lockpick:

If someone came to this game for a 5e experience it has deviated from 5e. Whether that personally bothers you or not is opinion. The fact that it has is... fact.

Saying that it is has deviated from 5e's ruleset is indeed a fact.
Saying that's its not a 5e game is objectively wrong.

sums it up, every single adventure path has either changed, removed, or added something, even some as recent as storm kings thunder.

it is the very nature of D&D to add/change new mechanics to suit the need of the campaign being runned.

curse of strad itself has an entire section on how spells and magic work differently, so is it D&D?

according to some people here: no, but it is offical D&D content, none the less.

[Alealexi]

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Originally posted by Soft Lockpick:

The point I was making is people who came for a 5e game and got something other than a 5e game are going to chafe at it. And you can try to pick nits and say "It's not different enough in MY opinion" as though everyone should share it but it is objectively not a 5e game when they change the rules away from 5e. And the further that line is away from the core RAW the more ways they can make that case. But for some people it may not need to deviate that far overall.

It's too different from RAW in your opinion. It's just fine in mine. Neither of us are wrong. We have different preferences.

The real issue that people are responding to isn't that you dislike the game or think it has deviated too much from Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 or D&D 5th Edition. It's that you are presenting your opinions as if they are objective facts when they are nothing more than subjective preferences.

Example.

But that does not make it opinion when they say "it isn't 5e" - it is factually not 5e. Inarguably.

That is just your opinion.

As it is my opinion that Baldur's Gate 3 is a great D&D 5th Edition game.

I see it as a great homebrew 5e game. It is 5e just modified. It is mostly the rules lawyers who don't like it since they will not be able to enforce the RAW rules and hate the rule of cool. Every d&d game has some homebrew. Some bad & some good. Good example of homebrew is the changes to ranger in this game.

[NixAhmose]

Originally posted by Soft Lockpick:

No, it's objectively true. It has deviated.

And deviation doesn't mean it isn't an adaptation of a product.

Originally posted by Soft Lockpick:

You could say it is based on 5e, is 5e-like,

That is what people mean when they say its a 5e game. Nobody says "Not uh, the Arkham games aren't actually Batman games, they're just based off the batman comics." People just call those games Batman games because that's what they are, a game about Batman just like how Baldur's Gate is a game about dnd 5e.

Originally posted by Soft Lockpick:

but I'd say it's just as heavily based on Divinity in its current form.

No it isn't. It uses none of the same lore, setting, characters, enemies, and has completely different mechanics. The only similarities between Divinity and BG3 are that they have environmental effects and are turn-based, which the latter is also true of 5e.

Originally posted by Soft Lockpick:

Based on 5e does not equal being 5e.

No one says it was being equally the same as 5e. They're saying its a 5e game because its based on 5e.

Originally posted by Soft Lockpick:

Much of that isn't inherent to 5e. Lore and setting and characters are not "5th edition" they are Forgotten Realms. Monsters to a lesser extent as there are variations based on setting. I think you're conflating a setting with the ruleset here.

Except Forgotten Realms is the main setting for 5e. Almost all officially made adventures and products for 5e explicitly take place in Forgotten realms to the point where more supplemental rule books and monster manuals are named after Forgotten Realms characters.

Originally posted by Soft Lockpick:

I never said they were pure D&D games. I'm arguing from the perspective of a 5e fan who wanted 5e. I am not that 5e fan, my gripes lie elsewhere. I'm just saying that they have a legitimate point.

But you are getting a 5e game. Not a 100% completely faithful and identical 5e game, but a videogame adaptation of 5e none the less.

[Aldain]

Man looking at that survey is kind of depressing, the fact that so many people like bonus action Shove and High Ground freebie advantage makes me doubt that encounter design will get better.

We already have so many encounters where enemies start on/near high ground and with Druid's bird form I feel like we're just going to see more and more "Sneak to high ground and game is easy" encounters.

[zero]

ITT: people try to pretend that modifcations to something suddenly make it not that thing.

i have suddenly learned that if you have a cheese pizza, its not cheese on that pizza, cause its been changed into a new form!

mocking satire aside: it follows the D&D ruleset(modified or not, consider modifications are ENCOURAGED in the DMG), uses the D&D setting, and uses D&D mechanics?

its D&D.