Druid Land vs Moon Differences

[Streeja]

I just got the two Druid subclasses to level 4 and was looking for the differences. What I see is...
Circle of the Land
- Regain spells outside of combat in lieu of resting at level 2
- Wildform is an action

Circle of the Moon
- Gets bear form at level 2
- Gets raven form at level 4
- Wildform is a bonus action (instead of full action like Land)

And that is it. The spells appear to be the same.

Am I missing something here? I realize we are capped at level 4, so there may be more differences at higher levels. Just wanting to know what the differences in BG3 are not at level4.

If what I see is correct, there is really no reason to ever choose Circle of the Land in early access.

[Hobo Elf]

Автор сообщения: Soft Lockpick

My impression is it's the opposite. The moon specific forms aren't big deals and land gets you extra spell options that are higher value. Raven might be good enough though.

End of the day you're playing a hybrid. You won't be as good a fighter as the fighter. You won't be as good a wizard as the wizard. You won't be as good a rogue as a rogue. But you can fill the roles in a pinch. So optimize for one and know you can kind of backup fill the others.

Also, in this game specifically there's sides of beef laying all over the place so healing has VERY low value because you can just carry so many consumables even at level 1. Which minimizes the impact of the moon class feature.

Are you an ex-WoW player? Because that's not what being a Druid means in D&D at all.

[Soft Lockpick]

Автор сообщения: Hobo Elf

Автор сообщения: Soft Lockpick

My impression is it's the opposite. The moon specific forms aren't big deals and land gets you extra spell options that are higher value. Raven might be good enough though.

End of the day you're playing a hybrid. You won't be as good a fighter as the fighter. You won't be as good a wizard as the wizard. You won't be as good a rogue as a rogue. But you can fill the roles in a pinch. So optimize for one and know you can kind of backup fill the others.

Also, in this game specifically there's sides of beef laying all over the place so healing has VERY low value because you can just carry so many consumables even at level 1. Which minimizes the impact of the moon class feature.

Are you an ex-WoW player? Because that's not what being a Druid means in D&D at all.

... yeah it does.

A druid is a mix of healer (not as good as a dedicated healer) a fighter/rogue (animal forms for attack, tanking, and utility. Not as good as the relevant classes once leveled a bit and geared) and a caster (not as powerful as the wizard/sorc long term due to spell selection).

If this was 3.5 we'd be having a different discussion as CoDzilla is about the strongest at everything. But we're talking 5e and we're talking about it with video game limitations on wildshape and gear at that (no wild clasp). My description is 100% on point.

I'll grant that moonbeam is not working as it should right now so they make a better nuker than wizard in game but that's presumably due to a bug on the damage ticks.

[Hobo Elf]

Автор сообщения: Soft Lockpick

Автор сообщения: Hobo Elf

Are you an ex-WoW player? Because that's not what being a Druid means in D&D at all.

... yeah it does.

A druid is a mix of healer (not as good as a dedicated healer) a fighter/rogue (animal forms for attack, tanking, and utility. Not as good as the relevant classes once leveled a bit and geared) and a caster (not as powerful as the wizard/sorc long term due to spell selection).

If this was 3.5 we'd be having a different discussion as CoDzilla is about the strongest at everything. But we're talking 5e and we're talking about it with video game limitations on wildshape and gear at that (no wild clasp). My description is 100% on point.

You're right that it's an apt description in crpgs especially since none of them seem to go beyond level 10, but in PnP it's pretty untrue.

[Soft Lockpick]

Автор сообщения: Hobo Elf

Автор сообщения: Soft Lockpick

... yeah it does.

A druid is a mix of healer (not as good as a dedicated healer) a fighter/rogue (animal forms for attack, tanking, and utility. Not as good as the relevant classes once leveled a bit and geared) and a caster (not as powerful as the wizard/sorc long term due to spell selection).

If this was 3.5 we'd be having a different discussion as CoDzilla is about the strongest at everything. But we're talking 5e and we're talking about it with video game limitations on wildshape and gear at that (no wild clasp). My description is 100% on point.

You're right that it's an apt description in crpgs especially since none of them seem to go beyond level 10, but in PnP it's pretty untrue.

Which is another way of saying I was right. BG3 isn't a pen and paper game. You'll note this thread isn't about what a pen and paper druid plays like, it's about the differences in this particular game. The list in the OP isn't the list in the PHB.

[Jack Hawklight]

So far I am having fun as a moon druid ripping people apart as a wolf. I didn't know that down the line I would be restricted from spells like misty step and mirror image though. Do druid wildshapes scale with level in anyway? I would expect that at lvl 5 you would get some upgraded ones and the moon druid more varied shapes or something so that they can stay viable.

[Soft Lockpick]

Автор сообщения: funniesthobo

So far I am having fun as a moon druid ripping people apart as a wolf. I didn't know that down the line I would be restricted from spells like misty step and mirror image though. Do druid wildshapes scale with level in anyway? I would expect that at lvl 5 you would get some upgraded ones and the moon druid more varied shapes or something so that they can stay viable.

The way it works in pen and paper isn't used here so nobody really knows what Larian is going to do with it.

PnP is more like a game of pokemon. You can only transform into things you've encountered. So you gain strength as you face stronger ones. And you have the whole list of animals in the game to draw on so long as you meet the level requirement.

With this it's a static list. How viable moon is will entirely be determined by what shapes they decide to give you and how they stat them out. And you can't even use the monster stats from the pen and paper game to guess because the animal forms already in game don't match as I understand it.

[Jack Hawklight]

Автор сообщения: Soft Lockpick

Автор сообщения: funniesthobo

So far I am having fun as a moon druid ripping people apart as a wolf. I didn't know that down the line I would be restricted from spells like misty step and mirror image though. Do druid wildshapes scale with level in anyway? I would expect that at lvl 5 you would get some upgraded ones and the moon druid more varied shapes or something so that they can stay viable.

The way it works in pen and paper isn't used here so nobody really knows what Larian is going to do with it.

PnP is more like a game of pokemon. You can only transform into things you've encountered. So you gain strength as you face stronger ones. And you have the whole list of animals in the game to draw on so long as you meet the level requirement.

With this it's a static list. How viable moon is will entirely be determined by what shapes they decide to give you and how they stat them out. And you can't even use the monster stats from the pen and paper game to guess because the animal forms already in game don't match as I understand it.

Yeah that was my understanding as well, that they have altered the shapes stats from PNP. That is interesting that you can only turn into animals you've seen in PNP. I wouldn't mind being able to turn into a phase spider matriarch lol. But who knows how they are going to go about balancing all of this for end game. I think it is a mistake to limit the level at 4, even allowing the 5th level would start to show where new balance concerns rise as characters get significantly more powerful.

[Mosey]

Автор сообщения: Streeja

No way I can see keeping moonbeam up the whole fight unless you are hiding. My druid is the focus of the enemies it seems and one of them is bound to punch me in the face or hit me with an arrow from across the screen to break my concentration.

Well, for one thing you can pretty easily get reasonably high AC on a druid without even using their spells.

For another thing, why wouldn't you hide to avoid having your concentration broken? You're using your actions for Moonbeam, so what else are you doing with your bonus action that compares to keeping Moonbeam up for an entire massive encounter?

I get it, the urge to charge in and face tank is strong with some people. It's not really wise though, especially when you could either vaporize the entire encounter or, alternatively, get killed.

My personal opinion is, if you don't take stealth you're doing it wrong in BG3. Unless, of course, your armor prevents sneaking. And Druid doesn't need to take that problem on. They can easily wear drow leather with a shield for 19 AC without sacrificing anything of note.

[Streeja]

Автор сообщения: Mosey

Автор сообщения: Streeja

No way I can see keeping moonbeam up the whole fight unless you are hiding. My druid is the focus of the enemies it seems and one of them is bound to punch me in the face or hit me with an arrow from across the screen to break my concentration.

Well, for one thing you can pretty easily get reasonably high AC on a druid without even using their spells.

For another thing, why wouldn't you hide to avoid having your concentration broken? You're using your actions for Moonbeam, so what else are you doing with your bonus action that compares to keeping Moonbeam up for an entire massive encounter?

I get it, the urge to charge in and face tank is strong with some people. It's not really wise though, especially when you could either vaporize the entire encounter or, alternatively, get killed.

My personal opinion is, if you don't take stealth you're doing it wrong in BG3. Unless, of course, your armor prevents sneaking. And Druid doesn't need to take that problem on. They can easily wear drow leather with a shield for 19 AC without sacrificing anything of note.

Good point. But I refuse to play the sneak game in a D&D. It is less fun and feels cheesy. Not to mention it really upsets the balance in BG3. I used two rogues with the sneak gameplay, elevation, etc. once just to see if I could do it, and it is brokenly easy. And not even remotely fun for me. But that is just my play-style. To each his own.

[Mosey]

Автор сообщения: Streeja

Good point. But I refuse to play the sneak game in a D&D. It is less fun and feels cheesy. Not to mention it really upsets the balance in BG3. I used two rogues with the sneak gameplay, elevation, etc. once just to see if I could do it, and it is brokenly easy. And not even remotely fun for me. But that is just my play-style. To each his own.

You're not wrong, the AI is pretty awful without even using sneak. There are tons of cheese methods to take out encounters without even the risk of being hit, and it's mostly the fault of the AI being stupid as a brick.

[dolby]

Автор сообщения: Streeja

Автор сообщения: dolby

The moonbeam main problem is you can have it up forever through the whole fight due to concentration. so you have in fact infinite spell slots. it's bit like if wizard would have a cantrip for scorching ray - shatter
Just make it 2 turns i think 2 would be plenty, lower the damage numbers yes a bit cos it's aoe... and dump the concentration and it's fine as it is.

No way I can see keeping moonbeam up the whole fight unless you are hiding. My druid is the focus of the enemies it seems and one of them is bound to punch me in the face or hit me with an arrow from across the screen to break my concentration.

Well, right now you can have a druid with 24 AC you add bane and you get even more...
On top of that you can get enemies to have disadvantage on hits... due to all sorts of stuff. so yeah good luck getting hit... that's before you use hide - range to not get hit..l

Oh wait it's not over you do concentration checks at +3 you slap on Bear's Endurance gold dwarf will have loads of HP 50? more if you take tough or level con. You can have perma fire and poison slashing, pierceing, bludgeoning resistance. You can change shapes for extra hp just cos giggles and you don't need that bonus action anyway.

And all this time you are pointing whitelaser that can do 4d10 damage every turn.

So balanced especially thanks to all the contraction limits lol
Now you add Larian homebrew stuff like jump push hide or whatever and off you go.
The fun part is on the forums you see how people say fights are overturned or hard.:))

[dolby]

Автор сообщения: Pumis

Автор сообщения: dolby

Well, right now you can have a druid with 24 AC you add bane and you get even more...
On top of that you can get enemies to have disadvantage on hits... due to all sorts of stuff. so yeah good luck getting hit... that's before you use hide - range to not get hit..l

Oh wait it's not over you do concentration checks at +3 with a gold dwarf at 43hp more if you take tough or level con. You can have perma fire and poison slashing, pierceing, bludgeoning resistance. You can change shapes for extra hp just cos giggles and you don't need that bonus action anyway.

And all this time you are pointing whitelaser that can do 4d10 damage every turn.

So balanced especially thanks to all the contraction limits lol
Now you add Larian homebrew stuff like jump push hide or whatever and off you go.
The fun part is on the forums you see how people say fights are overturned or hard.:))

"You can have perma fire and poison slashing, pierceing, bludgeoning resistance."
Ummm did I miss something? Where do you get those other resistances beside poison as Dwarf druid?

fire resist potion and a perma blade ward when you get healed from shadowheart or whoever is using hellriders pride glows and throwing potion at you just for fun...of course you are getting blessed at the same time but not like you need that bless you are a god at level 4 anyway;)

[dolby]

Автор сообщения: Pumis

Автор сообщения: dolby

fire resist potion and a perma blade ward when you get healed from shadowheart or whoever is using hellriders pride glows and throwing potion at you just for fun...of course you are getting blessed at the same time but not like you need that bless you are a god at level 4 anyway;)

Wait what? Hellrider's give permament buff? I thought it's temporally just like with the cantrip spell.

it's two turns i think you can get a heal in two turns don't you think? i mean not like you need it in the first place...but after all potions are infinite.

[dolby]

˄doesn't matter how you call it i can have it up 24/7 if i want but yes on all classes

[dolby]

Автор сообщения: Pumis

Автор сообщения: dolby

˄doesn't matter how you call it i can have it up 24/7 ...

Still applies to literally all classes in the game. Thus not really relevant to the discussion over difference between land and moon druid.

ok have fun