Sorcerer Has the ability to be the Best Class

[mitchellshort77]

So clearly as the title states Sorcerer is in my opinion is going to be the best class.
1st The ability to have access to long rest often means meta magic will be the best class feature to have in terms of versatility. as well as tense situations (heighten spell and subtle spell) in and out of combat are monsters without stating the obvious twin,quicken spell hell even carefull spell for party and companions.
2nd Subclass Wild magic-trash from a metagamers perspective from a RPG standpoint amazing. Draconic heighten ac on a spell caster with wings and a free resistance. Divine soul- Meta magic cleric spells without multiclassing Command at first lvl with twin or heighten can be a fight ender. and healing spells combo with your new meta magic to re roll healing Amazing.
3rd Charisma being the spell casting stat will also allow for the best dialog options without sacrificing power in character creation. (assuming headband of INT stays its amazing)

[naginata]

@2m

why is that`?

[mitchellshort77]

Hexblade Warlock + Divine Sorc will be the strongest class in the game. [/quote]
Hexblade is dope but I believe the math works out that paliden would be better for more hp and divine smite being a class feature not an invocation. I could very well be wrong but I think 6 pali 14 sorc is the best for raw power in the game.

[(Farkon) 2m_anylootboxes]

Tactics are superior then basic math.

Smite is melee only, more then half the game is ranged combat since you gain advantage on height advantage and can make almost any battle into a ranged one.

Quickened E blast is more damage then smiting, moreso if the battle takes long, while you are greater invised (twin if you want) and misty step around so the enemy can never catch you.

[The Infinity Sock]

If we get shadow sorcerer and divine soul in BG3 I would agree with you

[OH! MY CAR]

Wrong, Bard is the best class and race in DnD.

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

Publicado originalmente por mitchellshort77:

Sorcerer is in my opinion is going to be the best class.

*The Dwarf Paladin Laughs Heartily*

[Indure]

Publicado originalmente por 2m_anyloo̐̔͞tboxes (Farkon):

Publicado originalmente por mitchellshort77:

So clearly as the title states Sorcerer is in my opinion is going to be the best class.
1st The ability to have access to long rest often means meta magic will be the best class feature to have in terms of versatility. as well as tense situations (heighten spell and subtle spell) in and out of combat are monsters without stating the obvious twin,quicken spell hell even carefull spell for party and companions.
2nd Subclass Wild magic-trash from a metagamers perspective from a RPG standpoint amazing. Draconic heighten ac on a spell caster with wings and a free resistance. Divine soul- Meta magic cleric spells without multiclassing Command at first lvl with twin or heighten can be a fight ender. and healing spells combo with your new meta magic to re roll healing Amazing.
3rd Charisma being the spell casting stat will also allow for the best dialog options without sacrificing power in character creation. (assuming headband of INT stays its amazing)

Hexblade Warlock + Divine Sorc will be the strongest class in the game.

Hexblade + divine sorc will be strongest modded class in the game :)

[Blackdragon]

Publicado originalmente por 2m_anyloo̐̔͞tboxes (Farkon):

Hexblade Warlock + Divine Sorc will be the strongest class in the game.

Neither Hexblade nor Divine Soul Sorcerer are in the PHB, so it is questionable if they will be in the game.

Anyway, Sorlocks work great in PnP, but might just be too cumbersome for CRPG due to the constant sorc point juggle. Could become a hassle, especially with a melee Sorlock/Hexblade.

Cleric 2 + Sorc 18 looks good to me, with Tempest domain you get heavy armor, martial weapons, a slew of scalable cleric spells, 9th level Arcane spells, and FULL SPELL SLOT progression due to cumulative multiclass spellcasting (especially important since there's a level cap) - plus the unique ability to cast MAXIMIZED CHAIN LIGHTNING with your Channel Divinity. And if we ever get Transmuted Spell metamagic, then... can anyone say MAXIMIZED LIGHTNING METEOR SWARM?
Stormlord of Talos all the way!

[mitchellshort77]

Publicado originalmente por Blackdragon:

Publicado originalmente por 2m_anyloo̐̔͞tboxes (Farkon):

Hexblade Warlock + Divine Sorc will be the strongest class in the game.

Neither Hexblade nor Divine Soul Sorcerer are in the PHB, so it is questionable if they will be in the game.

Anyway, Sorlocks work great in PnP, but might just be too cumbersome for CRPG due to the constant sorc point juggle. Could become a hassle, especially with a melee Sorlock/Hexblade.

Cleric 2 + Sorc 18 looks good to me, with Tempest domain you get heavy armor, martial weapons, a slew of scalable cleric spells, 9th level Arcane spells, and FULL 20-level SPELL SLOTS due to cumulative multiclass spellcasting - plus the unique ability to cast MAXIMIZED CHAIN LIGHTNING with your Channel Divinity. And if we ever get Transmuted Spell metamagic, then... can anyone say MAXIMIZED LIGHTNING METEOR SWARM?
Stormlord of Talos all the way!

My logic behind believing that it will be an available sub class is because for a tactical standpoint the only reliable subclass would be draconic because of how crazy wild magic is. they would have to have some other subclass and by far the divine soul is the most popular. as far as sorc point juggle goes that kinda the sorcerer thing tabletop wise idk how well it would translate to this game maybe a lot of clicks but not impossible. And I will die on this molehill sorclocks are great and all but you only need a 2 lvl paliden dip for smite. 18divine soul sorc-2 pali. Your goal is simple you have wings you have a well of sorc points to meta magic with and a free half your health heal and lay on hands. YOUR ONLY JOB IS TO LIVE you can heighten spell enchantment spells. you ever use mass suggestion in combat with a D.C of 18 and the strongest guy has disadvantage. Just my opinion I think divine soul is the best class in the game at lvl 5 plus

[Indure]

Publicado originalmente por mitchellshort77:

Publicado originalmente por Blackdragon:

Neither Hexblade nor Divine Soul Sorcerer are in the PHB, so it is questionable if they will be in the game.

Anyway, Sorlocks work great in PnP, but might just be too cumbersome for CRPG due to the constant sorc point juggle. Could become a hassle, especially with a melee Sorlock/Hexblade.

Cleric 2 + Sorc 18 looks good to me, with Tempest domain you get heavy armor, martial weapons, a slew of scalable cleric spells, 9th level Arcane spells, and FULL 20-level SPELL SLOTS due to cumulative multiclass spellcasting - plus the unique ability to cast MAXIMIZED CHAIN LIGHTNING with your Channel Divinity. And if we ever get Transmuted Spell metamagic, then... can anyone say MAXIMIZED LIGHTNING METEOR SWARM?
Stormlord of Talos all the way!

My logic behind believing that it will be an available sub class is because for a tactical standpoint the only reliable subclass would be draconic because of how crazy wild magic is. they would have to have some other subclass and by far the divine soul is the most popular. as far as sorc point juggle goes that kinda the sorcerer thing tabletop wise idk how well it would translate to this game maybe a lot of clicks but not impossible. And I will die on this molehill sorclocks are great and all but you only need a 2 lvl paliden dip for smite. 18divine soul sorc-2 pali. Your goal is simple you have wings you have a well of sorc points to meta magic with and a free half your health heal and lay on hands. YOUR ONLY JOB IS TO LIVE you can heighten spell enchantment spells. you ever use mass suggestion in combat with a D.C of 18 and the strongest guy has disadvantage. Just my opinion I think divine soul is the best class in the game at lvl 5 plus

I am curious if they will even try to put wild magic in the game. If they don't, you're right they will put in another bloodline, but I feel like divine soul still has little reason to be put in. There are 7 types of clerics and 3 paladins, do characters need more divine options?

[mitchellshort77]

Publicado originalmente por Indure:

Publicado originalmente por mitchellshort77:

My logic behind believing that it will be an available sub class is because for a tactical standpoint the only reliable subclass would be draconic because of how crazy wild magic is. they would have to have some other subclass and by far the divine soul is the most popular. as far as sorc point juggle goes that kinda the sorcerer thing tabletop wise idk how well it would translate to this game maybe a lot of clicks but not impossible. And I will die on this molehill sorclocks are great and all but you only need a 2 lvl paliden dip for smite. 18divine soul sorc-2 pali. Your goal is simple you have wings you have a well of sorc points to meta magic with and a free half your health heal and lay on hands. YOUR ONLY JOB IS TO LIVE you can heighten spell enchantment spells. you ever use mass suggestion in combat with a D.C of 18 and the strongest guy has disadvantage. Just my opinion I think divine soul is the best class in the game at lvl 5 plus

I am curious if they will even try to put wild magic in the game. If they don't, you're right they will put in another bloodline, but I feel like divine soul still has little reason to be put in. There are 7 types of clerics and 3 paladins, do characters need more divine options?

This is a question that made me think for a second does it need it probley not. but I would also play devils advocate and say that it would provide the most to the game regardless your party has a divine essence no matter what companion group you end up with at least 1 if not more will have some divine influence So it would be on par to have it as well.

[(Farkon) 2m_anylootboxes]

Pretty sure hexblade and divine sorc will be in because of how Wyll was strongly hinted to be one and divine sorc is easy to implement from a coding pov.

[KaffeeRausch]

I think sorcerers have a bad reputation for their innate magic that they have to be penalized for persuading / persuading them.

If something burns somewhere, it is the Phoenix Sorcerer's fault.

If the undead appear, the shadow magic sorcerer is to blame.

Dragons are unpopular (Choma), Dragon Blood Sorcerer is not to be trusted.

Fairy dust / wild magic sorcerers mean chaos!

[Blackdragon]

Publicado originalmente por mitchellshort77:

My logic behind believing that it will be an available sub class is because for a tactical standpoint the only reliable subclass would be draconic because of how crazy wild magic is. they would have to have some other subclass and by far the divine soul is the most popular.

Both Shadow and Storm origins are in the same book as Divine Soul (Xanathar), and they're popular/powerful as well. Shadow in particular has some amazing abilities both at early levels (Eyes of the Dark, Strength of the Grave) and late levels (Shadow Walk, Umbral Form). In all honesty I'd much rather take Shadow over Divine Soul. If you want a Divine offensive caster, just take a Light Cleric, within BG3's level cap it's a powerhouse.

Publicado originalmente por mitchellshort77:

as far as sorc point juggle goes that kinda the sorcerer thing tabletop wise idk how well it would translate to this game

My guess is badly! Sorc points are fine when you can either automate the process, or only use them on a few occasions. If you're planning to use them every time you attack (i.e. Sorlock twinning Eldritch Blasts), and there's no way to automate, then it will become a chore very fast. Even reapplying Hex to a new target gets pretty annoying with the Warlock in BG3, imagine you'll have to do several extra clicks every time you attack. And I really doubt Larian will have automation for this kind of stuff, they might actually make it more difficult than necessary (like they did with separate buttons and menus for sneak attack, various spell versions, etc.).

So yeah, Sorlock looks great on paper, and plays fine in PnP, when you can explain everything to a DM, but in a Larian CRPG it might be too cumbersome.

Publicado originalmente por mitchellshort77:

And I will die on this molehill sorclocks are great and all but you only need a 2 lvl paliden dip for smite. 18divine soul sorc-2 pali. Your goal is simple you have wings you have a well of sorc points to meta magic with and a free half your health heal and lay on hands. YOUR ONLY JOB IS TO LIVE you can heighten spell enchantment spells. you ever use mass suggestion in combat with a D.C of 18 and the strongest guy has disadvantage. Just my opinion I think divine soul is the best class in the game at lvl 5 plus

Why would you waste a max level Arcane caster with plenty of offensive magic options to... swing a sword with a minor damage boost and a tiny heal? If you want melee/defense, pick Fighter. If you want melee/defense with Divine magic, pick Cleric or Paladin. If you want MASSIVE AOE DAMAGE, pick Arcane caster (Wizard/Sorc). If you want ALL OF THE ABOVE AND MORE, pick Tempest Cleric/Draconic Sorcerer multiclass.

Tempest Cleric's Channel Divinity makes your lightning/thunder offensive spells even MORE powerful, while keeping the same number of spell slots as a 20th level Sorcerer. Instead of playing against your character's strengths, it's much more efficient to boost these strengths, while filling gaps (Defense, Healing).

A Tempest Cleric 2/Draconic Sorcerer 18 has better defense than a Fighter or Cleric (Heavy Armor + Shield + Armor of Faith + Shield spell + Mirror Image + Blur etc...), strong healing (due to healing spell scaling), and better offense than a Wizard/Sorcerer (all the offensive power of a Sorc PLUS the cleric buffs like Bless PLUS the ability to maximize a spell for free every short rest, which NOBODY else gets). This character will be very strong at all levels, and have the best of all worlds (except rogue's tricks, but who needs them when you can just carpet bomb the battlefield with Maximized Chain Lightning).

[mitchellshort77]

Publicado originalmente por Blackdragon:

Publicado originalmente por mitchellshort77:

My logic behind believing that it will be an available sub class is because for a tactical standpoint the only reliable subclass would be draconic because of how crazy wild magic is. they would have to have some other subclass and by far the divine soul is the most popular.

Both Shadow and Storm origins are in the same book as Divine Soul (Xanathar), and they're popular/powerful as well. Shadow in particular has some amazing abilities both at early levels (Eyes of the Dark, Strength of the Grave) and late levels (Shadow Walk, Umbral Form). In all honesty I'd much rather take Shadow over Divine Soul. If you want a Divine offensive caster, just take a Light Cleric, within BG3's level cap it's a powerhouse.

Publicado originalmente por mitchellshort77:

as far as sorc point juggle goes that kinda the sorcerer thing tabletop wise idk how well it would translate to this game

My guess is badly! Sorc points are fine when you can either automate the process, or only use them on a few occasions. If you're planning to use them every time you attack (i.e. Sorlock twinning Eldritch Blasts), and there's no way to automate, then it will become a chore very fast. Even reapplying Hex to a new target gets pretty annoying with the Warlock in BG3, imagine you'll have to do several extra clicks every time you attack. And I really doubt Larian will have automation for this kind of stuff, they might actually make it more difficult than necessary (like they did with separate buttons and menus for sneak attack, various spell versions, etc.).

So yeah, Sorlock looks great on paper, and plays fine in PnP, when you can explain everything to a DM, but in a Larian CRPG it might be too cumbersome.

Publicado originalmente por mitchellshort77:

And I will die on this molehill sorclocks are great and all but you only need a 2 lvl paliden dip for smite. 18divine soul sorc-2 pali. Your goal is simple you have wings you have a well of sorc points to meta magic with and a free half your health heal and lay on hands. YOUR ONLY JOB IS TO LIVE you can heighten spell enchantment spells. you ever use mass suggestion in combat with a D.C of 18 and the strongest guy has disadvantage. Just my opinion I think divine soul is the best class in the game at lvl 5 plus

Why would you waste a max level Arcane caster with plenty of offensive magic options to... swing a sword with a minor damage boost and a tiny heal? If you want melee/defense, pick Fighter. If you want melee/defense with Divine magic, pick Cleric or Paladin. If you want MASSIVE AOE DAMAGE, pick Arcane caster (Wizard/Sorc). If you want ALL OF THE ABOVE AND MORE, pick Tempest Cleric/Draconic Sorcerer multiclass.

Tempest Cleric's Channel Divinity makes your lightning/thunder offensive spells even MORE powerful, while keeping the same number of spell slots as a 20th level Sorcerer. Instead of playing against your character's strengths, it's much more efficient to boost these strengths, while filling gaps (Defense, Healing).

A Tempest Cleric 2/Draconic Sorcerer 18 has better defense than a Fighter or Cleric (Heavy Armor + Shield + Armor of Faith + Shield spell + Mirror Image + Blur etc...), strong healing (due to healing spell scaling), and better offense than a Wizard/Sorcerer (all the offensive power of a Sorc PLUS the cleric buffs like Bless PLUS the ability to maximize a spell for free every short rest, which NOBODY else gets). This character will be very strong at all levels, and have the best of all worlds (except rogue's tricks, but who needs them when you can just carpet bomb the battlefield with Maximized Chain Lightning).

So alot to go through yes shadow was in the same book as divine but as far as general popularity divine soul is more popular. So when it comes to sorc points and meta magic management in the game its gonna be hard no matter which way you slice it for all the points you listed plus the fact that if you want to "optimize" your turn every round you gonna be burning sorc points for spells and meta magic thats the sorcerer thing thats the classes identity. So when i talk about the 2 pali 18 divine soul. the point of lay on hands to to cure diseases and whatnot you have enough healing as it stands. the reason the max out the arcane class is because 1 action surge and fighting style isnt equivalent to smite,lay on hands and a fighting style. and if you start pali you have the heavy armor proficiency. again this is my opinion I think the sorcerers goal is to live and use things like heighten spell and quicken spell to pump out damage and i think most sorcerers should be centered around enchantment/evocation because realistically if played right they are the strongest class from a tabletop perspective my 13th lvl divie soul beat vajura blackstaff with 9th lvl spells and she used time stop to prep globe of invulnerability. the class itself is just so complementary