Barkskin Issues

[mikeet207]

Hello,

Well first off, I'm not sure if everyone here will agree with me but Barkskin is pretty useless as implemented both in 5th edition and BG3. Why? Well lets see.

Barkskin buffs your armor to a flat 16 AC. Sounds amazing right? Hmm, ok perhaps on some very specific builds but lets examine it further. Available to druids, who can wear up to medium armor. In 5th edition Druids can not wear metal armor (as in it was in older editions). In BG3 they seemed to have lifted that restriction. My Circle of the Land Druid is currently rolling around wearing a +1 Chain Shirt, allowing a +2 from Dexterity bring my AC to 16 without a shield equipped. I'm level and now Barkskin is not worth the spell slots to cast.

It also requires Concentration.....ok that is the crux there. Lets say you can't find a +1 Chain shirt or similar gear. Is it still better to cast Barkskin considering you have to sacrifice Concentration when so many other spells also require it? I don't really think so. The benefits are very minuscule.

It's long been discussed on many 5th edition forums that this is a useless spell and most DM's will alter it for their campaigns to make it viable. In my homebrew I have changed it to no longer require concentration and also I add resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non-magical weapons until you take half your hit points in damage. I know a lot of things to track there, but it's worth it. Considering this is a video game we could easily track that.

I would like to ask Larian to alter the spell in some way to add value to it. I think removing concentration would be the bare minimum change.

Final Note: If you are a circle of the land druid and choose Forest as your focus, you receive Barkskin as one of your "always prepared spells". I call that a trap for a useless spell.

Thanks.

[R3sistance]

For a Land Druid, Barkskin is pretty useless, for a Moon Druid, the Minimum 16AC carries over into your wild shape, this has generally always been the point of the Barkskin spell since most wild shape forms have around 11-13AC. So that's between a +5 to +3.

[holycat]

Originally posted by R3sistance:

For a Land Druid, Barkskin is pretty useless, for a Moon Druid, the Minimum 16AC carries over into your wild shape, this has generally always been the point of the Barkskin spell since most wild shape forms have around 11-13AC. So that's between a +5 to +3.

do wild shape not scale with levels in 5th edition?
wild shape was kind of useless in Baldur's gate 2 with higher levels. So they still haven't fixed this?

[PinkPanther]

I'm wondering what the heck was wrong with the natural armor bonus it provided in 3.0 and 3.5 edition..

[R3sistance]

Originally posted by grimcub:

Originally posted by R3sistance:

For a Land Druid, Barkskin is pretty useless, for a Moon Druid, the Minimum 16AC carries over into your wild shape, this has generally always been the point of the Barkskin spell since most wild shape forms have around 11-13AC. So that's between a +5 to +3.

do wild shape not scale with levels in 5th edition?
wild shape was kind of useless in Baldur's gate 2 with higher levels. So they still haven't fixed this?

Wild Shapes scale with level for moon druids but most wild shape forms do not get good AC boosts as they are "beasts" and beasts don't generally have good AC. One of the best wild shape forms is the Mammoth for an 18th level+ druid but it only has an AC of 13, it also has 126HP.

Wild Shape is like Barbarian, it is not tanking via AC but by literally mitigating the damage. But at level 18+, an AC of 13 is gunna be hit by near everything everytime. Since you just lose the form at 0HP tho, it's still 126HP that was soaked up and then you can wildshape again.

[Indure]

Barkskin is not good. 16AC is not particularly a good AC and barkskin cancels out all other AC spells like mage armor or shield of faith.

It was obviously designed for wildshapes, but due to concentration requirements you are burning a spell slot, that can be easily lost in the first round of combat, leaving you stuck in an even more vulnerable version of your wildshape. You also have to leave wildshape to get barkskin back.

Currently in BG3 it is useless. Your best beat as a druid is to wear cloth armor and cast mage armor via Gale or the numerous mage armor scrolls. This is +3 armor all day that can't be lost.

Then find Tyrs Greatsword so you can keep up shield of faith on yourself. Like barkskin, shield of faith requires concentration and can be lost, but it is just a +2 loss, not a all or nothing loss like barkskin. It also saves you a spell slot.

[Mosey]

Barkskin is fine for Moon Druid, even if it's not great, because it's the only spell you can naturally cast that raises your AC in beast form. Sure, your concentration may break on any hit but a Bear has high CON for concentration saves and I'm pretty sure you can have someone else cast a Resistance cantrip on you if you're really that worried about it.

The alternative to Barkskin is 2D8 healing for that 2nd level spell, so really I guess it's up to you which one is more useful. After all, it's not like you can cast anything else while in wildshape so those are basically your two choices.

Mage Armor is nice and all, but it gives less of a bonus even if it's more reliable and won't go away on a lucky hit. Plus you have to be essentially naked in Druid form to cast it at all, so I hope you like juggling armor on top of everything else. And I hope you have enough scrolls of mage armor to use it every time your mage demands a long rest.

Personally, I like Land druid just a tad more because shapeshift takes a full action which means I can use my bonus action to GTFO with a spider jump and you get one more Moonbeam per long rest.

Moon druid is perfectly viable, even if it's not the PnP version. I am absolutely sure it won't stand as-is though. There will be tweaks down the line.

[frakthefriendly]

Originally posted by mikeet207:

It also requires Concentration.....

Thanks.

Yes, that makes it pretty useless. Armor spells should not take concentration. My cleric casts Armor on my fighter, then casts bless and the armor goes away.

Stupid.

[Naidak]

-Remove Concentration
-Now lasts 10 turns.

I feel this would resolve it in the best way possible, considering it's potentially a +6 improvement to AC.

That's how I play it when I run 5e anyway.

[Space Dog]

Yeah definitely remove concentration from that since the gain is so small over normal armor. An hour for duration isn't too strong since it's more of an armor replacement than a buff that benefits an already armored Druid. It's a Mage Armor for Druids that's a bit more powerful as a 2nd level spell but doesn't last as long.

I get how visual effects need to be clear, but in this case I think the VFX is really ugly and obtrusive on Barkskin - it's not just skin but a complete wooden layer over equipment.

Mage Armor is overdone as well considering it's always on. I wish they will tone down these overbearing visuals.

[Indure]

Originally posted by Mosey:

/snip

Mage Armor is nice and all, but it gives less of a bonus even if it's more reliable and won't go away on a lucky hit. Plus you have to be essentially naked in Druid form to cast it at all, so I hope you like juggling armor on top of everything else. And I hope you have enough scrolls of mage armor to use it every time your mage demands a long rest.

Mage Armor only give less of a bonus for the bear and Deep Rothe. The wolf and spider have 14 base AC (17 with mage armor) and the raven is 16 base AC (19 with mage armor).

[R3sistance]

Originally posted by Indure:

Mage Armor only give less of a bonus for the bear and Deep Rothe. The wolf and spider have 14 base AC (17 with mage armor) and the raven is 16 base AC (19 with mage armor).

Mage Armor does not work this way in 5E, in 5E is a 13+DEX AC, also Druid does not get Mage Armor, unless you get it from say a feat or multiclassing.

This will need to be fixed in BG3 else Barbarian and Monks will get some stupidly high possible ACs.

[Indure]

Originally posted by R3sistance:

Originally posted by Indure:

Mage Armor only give less of a bonus for the bear and Deep Rothe. The wolf and spider have 14 base AC (17 with mage armor) and the raven is 16 base AC (19 with mage armor).

Mage Armor does not work this way in 5E, in 5E is a 13+DEX AC, also Druid does not get Mage Armor, unless you get it from say a feat or multiclassing.

This will need to be fixed in BG3 else Barbarian and Monks will get some stupidly high possible ACs.

Hopefully Larian changes it. Currently in BG3 it is:
"Surround a creature in a protective magical force. Its Armour Class increases by 3."

Even when they do it still is a better option for wolf and spider than barkskin.

[War Maiden]

Originally posted by R3sistance:

For a Land Druid, Barkskin is pretty useless, for a Moon Druid, the Minimum 16AC carries over into your wild shape, this has generally always been the point of the Barkskin spell since most wild shape forms have around 11-13AC. So that's between a +5 to +3.

THIS is the answer to the OP's query. You get a 16 AC instead of a 12 as the Polar Bear.
Which means those measly 30x2 hp (Wildshape x2) will have much more meaning.

[dolby]

Originally posted by KadianK4:

-Remove Concentration
-Now lasts 10 turns.

I feel this would resolve it in the best way possible, considering it's potentially a +6 improvement to AC.

That's how I play it when I run 5e anyway.

This would "fix" so many spells in this game it's not even funny... They would all go from useless to good... with a bit of balancing tweaks that is.

Originally posted by R3sistance:

Originally posted by Indure:

Mage Armor only give less of a bonus for the bear and Deep Rothe. The wolf and spider have 14 base AC (17 with mage armor) and the raven is 16 base AC (19 with mage armor).

Mage Armor does not work this way in 5E, in 5E is a 13+DEX AC, also Druid does not get Mage Armor, unless you get it from say a feat or multiclassing.

This will need to be fixed in BG3 else Barbarian and Monks will get some stupidly high possible ACs.

if you make it like it's 5e it will hardy get used but ok...like 1/3 of the spells now...