How would you personally rank the companions from BG 3 and BG 2 ??

[Jǫrmungandr]

Out of curiousity, how would you rate the current five BG 3 companions, in terms of how you like them / how interesting you find them ?

Also, how would you rate your favourite BG 2 companions ? (BG 2 obviously being a natural benchmark for comparison).

It would be interesting to see... Although I suspect Minsc will be most people's favourite from BG 2. All opinions obviously being fair. There is no right or wrong.

I'll go first, although it ought to be said that I haven't really explored the BG 3 companions' dialogue in great detail yet, as I decided to leave much of that to the full release, so my grounds to evaluate them is abit thin.

BG 3:
1) Lae'zel
2) Shadowheart
3) Gale
4) Wyll
5) Astarion

BG 2:
1) Jaheira (I loved the voice actress, with the slight accent)
2) Yoshimo (although the hex plot-twist in Asylum was such a major disappointment. Bad decision by the devs)
3) Anomen (a proud braggart, I know, but that gave him character, because he had flaws. Great acting by the voice actor too, and his quest was ineresting)
4) Korgan Bloodaxe. (A proper cold-hearted scoundrel that one)

Jan jansen and Edwin Odesseiron were both a little witty. I liked them too. Viconia was interesting as well, even though I never actually got to pursue her entire dialogue tree to the end. Which is one of my BG 2 regrets.

[mysticfall]

Personally, I don't think this would yield a much meaningful comparison. BG2 was released before such series as Dragon Age Origin or Mass Effect has raised the bar when it comes to companion interactions in RPGs.

On the other hand, even those beloved companions from such series would lose their attraction if we have to judge them by how they appear in the very first part of the relevant titles.

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by mysticfall:

Personally, I don't think this would yield a much meaningful comparison. BG2 was released before such series as Dragon Age Origin or Mass Effect has raised the bar when it comes to companion interactions in RPGs.

On the other hand, even those beloved companions from such series would lose their attraction if we have to judge them by how they appear in the very first part of the relevant titles.

Even though the dialogue was more comprehensive and voluminous in Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origin I don't think that they really raised the bar so much, generally speaking. More quantity does not necessarily translate to more quality. There might be some exceptions, like Sten the Qunari. he was really something. (subjective opinion, I know).

But the characters from BG 2 felt very integrated into the story and the environment. That's the key to their success, and partly the key to the success of the game as a whole. When the BG 2 characters spoke, it also usually carried more weight and felt more relevant. I don't think that the bar has been raised since then.

[mysticfall]

Originally posted by krikkert:

Even though the dialogue was more comprehensive and voluminous in Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origin I don't think that they really raised the bar so much, generally speaking. More quantity does not necessarily translate to more quality. There might be some exceptions, like Sten the Qunari. he was really something. (subjective opinion, I know).

But the characters from BG 2 felt very integrated into the story and the environment. That's the key to their success, and partly the key to the success of the game as a whole. When the BG 2 characters spoke, it also usually carried more weight and felt more relevant. I don't think that the bar has been raised since then.

As you said, we can only speak of our respective subjective opinions on such a matter.

That being said, however, I feel that the companion system of those two Bioware titles was incomparably superior to that of BG2, not simply because the former had more dialogue lines, but because it offered much more immersive experience than the latter.

I'm not sure why you think the lines BG2 companions said carried "more weight" or felt "more relevant". If you ask me, I can hardly remember any impactful companion dialogues from BG2 as those from Mordin's final scene in Mass Effect series, for instance.

But even if we set aside all our personal tastes in such matters and compare the features of the companion systems themselves, I believe that of those mentioned Bioware titles is much more complex and intricate than that of BG2 with its inter companion comments, cinematic cutscenes, loyalty missions, or romance options, and so on.

Of course, I'm not arguing that BG2's companions were bad in any sense of the word. It's just that the game belongs to a different era and RPGs have evolved a lot since then, including the companion system.

[Dorok]

I haven't play all the Act 1 current content and don't intend do it, I'll wait at least one more big patch or perhaps two to restart a play, and this time go even further or with very different priorities.

So from a partial view of companions:
1. Shadowheart
2. Gale & Lae'zel & Astarion
5. Wyll

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by mysticfall:

Originally posted by krikkert:

Even though the dialogue was more comprehensive and voluminous in Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origin I don't think that they really raised the bar so much, generally speaking. More quantity does not necessarily translate to more quality. There might be some exceptions, like Sten the Qunari. he was really something. (subjective opinion, I know).

But the characters from BG 2 felt very integrated into the story and the environment. That's the key to their success, and partly the key to the success of the game as a whole. When the BG 2 characters spoke, it also usually carried more weight and felt more relevant. I don't think that the bar has been raised since then.

As you said, we can only speak of our respective subjective opinions on such a matter.

That being said, however, I feel that the companion system of those two Bioware titles was incomparably superior to that of BG2, not simply because the former had more dialogue lines, but because it offered much more immersive experience than the latter.

I'm not sure why you think the lines BG2 companions said carried "more weight" or felt "more relevant". If you ask me, I can hardly remember any impactful companion dialogues from BG2 as those from Mordin's final scene in Mass Effect series, for instance.

But even if we set aside all our personal tastes in such matters and compare the features of the companion systems themselves, I believe that of those mentioned Bioware titles is much more complex and intricate than that of BG2 with its inter companion comments, cinematic cutscenes, loyalty missions, or romance options, and so on.

Of course, I'm not arguing that BG2's companions were bad in any sense of the word. It's just that the game belongs to a different era and RPGs have evolved a lot since then, including the companion system.

Yeah. Again, it's important to stress that we have subjective opinions, and that's always fair. I feel like it's always important to stress that since things are easily wrongly interpreted on online forums.

But I guess what I'm saying is that I'm a true roleplayer, in the classic and truest sense of the word. The "modern" companion system always feels so staged, and usually you are the one who must initiate contact with the companions, usually inside the camp, as in BG3 and DA: origins, as if you're desperate for their non-stop constant attention, And you often collect favour points, as in DA: Origins, and basically do FedEx quests, in order to appease them and impress them, like a grovelling little, obedient dog. It feels so staged, man.

In BG 2 it felt organic. When you say you can't remember any impactful dialogues in BG 2, I'll give you a few very simple examples of what was relevant to me.

1) You remember when you arrive outside the Copper Coronet the first time, and Jaheira expresses doubt and uncertainty as to the path ahead ?? That was meanignful to me, it felt organic, and like a natural reaction to our new situation. It was very plausible. That's the roleplayer in me. So, we had this exchange with her, collecting our thoughts and eventually pressing on. Conversations like these are the kind that immerses you and feel like you're actually there, in the story.

2) When you just establish contact with the Shadow Thieves, Yoshimo pitches in, as he has a little bit of a past with them, and warns you to tread lightly. Trivial to you maybe, but very meaningful to me, because it was plausible, it was a natural conversation to be had at that moment in time. It happened organically. That's the roleplayer in me, once again.

So, again, it felt like the characters were integrated into the story and the setting. Like they were fitted into the story. Nowadays, it tends to be the opposite, I think. The focus has been shifted too heavily over on especially the romance aspect, and everything else is on top of that, as if the romance/friendships with companions are the main feature of the game(s). Modern game characters almost always also tends to be made too flamboyant, too colourful, too spritey, too jolly, cracking a joke in the middle of battle etc. Like the devs are trying too hard to make them stand out too much. This is why I personally appreciate characters such as Jaheira and Sten the Qunari, because they were more low-key, and esepcially Jaheira was reacting to the situation she was in more realistically.

The dialogue betwen you and a given companion doesn't have to lead to a massive all-consuming, life-altering conclusion in order to be meaningful. The small things, the little details, you know. That matters. That's where the difference is at. But again, I respect that you have a different opinion. ;)

[dulany67]

1) Shadowheart
2) Astarion
3) Lae'zel
4) Gale
5) Anyone
6) Wyll

[mysticfall]

Originally posted by krikkert:

Yeah. Again, it's important to stress that we have subjective opinions, and that's always fair. I feel like it's always important to stress that since things are easily wrongly interpreted on online forums.

But I guess what I'm saying is that I'm a true roleplayer, in the classic and truest sense of the word. The "modern" companion system always feels so staged, and usually you are the one who must initiate contact with the companions, usually inside the camp, as in BG3 and DA: origins, as if you're desperate for their non-stop constant attention, And you often collect favour points, as in DA: Origins, and basically do FedEx quests, in order to appease them and impress them, like a grovelling little, obedient dog. It feels so staged, man.

In BG 2 it felt organic. When you say you can't remember any impactful dialogues in BG 2, I'll give you a few very simple examples of what was relevant to me.

1) You remember when you arrive outside the Copper Coronet the first time, and Jaheira expresses doubt and uncertainty as to the path ahead ?? That was meanignful to me, it felt organic, and like a natural reaction to our new situation. It was very plausible. That's the roleplayer in me. So, we had this exchange with her, collecting our thoughts and eventually pressing on. Conversations like these are the kind that immerses you and feel like you're actually there, in the story.

2) When you just establish contact with the Shadow Thieves, Yoshimo pitches in, as he has a little bit of a past with them, and warns you to tread lightly. Trivial to you maybe, but very meaningful to me, because it was plausible, it was a natural conversation to be had at that moment in time. It happened organically. That's the roleplayer in me, once again.

So, again, it felt like the characters were integrated into the story and the setting. Like they were fitted into the story. Nowadays, it tends to be the opposite, I think. The focus has been shifted too heavily over on especially the romance aspect, and everything else is on top of that, as if the romance/friendships with companions are the main feature of the game(s). Modern game characters almost always also tends to be made too flamboyant, too colourful, too spritey, too jolly, cracking a joke in the middle of battle etc. This is why I personally appreciate characters such as Jaheira and Sten the Qunari, because they were more low-key, and esepcially Jaheira was reacting to the situation she was in more realistically.

The dialogue betwen you and a given companion doesn't have to lead to a massive all-consuming, life-altering conclusion in order to be meaningful. The small things, the little details, you know. That matters. That's where the difference is at. But again, I respect that you have a different opinion. ;)

I agree that those dialogues you mentioned are good examples of companion interaction that enhances immersion. But such a level of location/situation dependent comments were quite plentiful in DA:O and ME too.

In other words, we may say that BG has set the bar before DA:O, ME when it comes to giving a bit more life and backstory to companions in an RPG.

But for other things like a more intricate approval system, inter-companion interactions, cinematic cutscenes, etc. are certainly an evolution that such later titles like DA/ME have achieved.

It doesn't mean that the change should be appreciated by everyone, of course, and I can partly understand your stance on this matter as I also feel certain aspects of such a system a bit forced, thus immersion breaking.

But I think it'd be only fair to acknowledge it as an 'evolution' - whether each of us prefer it or not - nonetheless because such changes have undoubtedly become popular so that many other games have built upon the idea since then - in other words, raising the bar regarding such a system.

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Originally posted by krikkert:

Although I suspect Minsc will be most people's favourite from BG 2.

In many regards he was much more enjoyable in BG 1. His personality got toned down in 2 and significantly altered. This was in response to the events he had been through but he didn't quite come across as his same old fun loving self. It almost felt like a disservice to the character.

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by mysticfall:

Originally posted by krikkert:

Yeah. Again, it's important to stress that we have subjective opinions, and that's always fair. I feel like it's always important to stress that since things are easily wrongly interpreted on online forums.

But I guess what I'm saying is that I'm a true roleplayer, in the classic and truest sense of the word. The "modern" companion system always feels so staged, and usually you are the one who must initiate contact with the companions, usually inside the camp, as in BG3 and DA: origins, as if you're desperate for their non-stop constant attention, And you often collect favour points, as in DA: Origins, and basically do FedEx quests, in order to appease them and impress them, like a grovelling little, obedient dog. It feels so staged, man.

In BG 2 it felt organic. When you say you can't remember any impactful dialogues in BG 2, I'll give you a few very simple examples of what was relevant to me.

1) You remember when you arrive outside the Copper Coronet the first time, and Jaheira expresses doubt and uncertainty as to the path ahead ?? That was meanignful to me, it felt organic, and like a natural reaction to our new situation. It was very plausible. That's the roleplayer in me. So, we had this exchange with her, collecting our thoughts and eventually pressing on. Conversations like these are the kind that immerses you and feel like you're actually there, in the story.

2) When you just establish contact with the Shadow Thieves, Yoshimo pitches in, as he has a little bit of a past with them, and warns you to tread lightly. Trivial to you maybe, but very meaningful to me, because it was plausible, it was a natural conversation to be had at that moment in time. It happened organically. That's the roleplayer in me, once again.

So, again, it felt like the characters were integrated into the story and the setting. Like they were fitted into the story. Nowadays, it tends to be the opposite, I think. The focus has been shifted too heavily over on especially the romance aspect, and everything else is on top of that, as if the romance/friendships with companions are the main feature of the game(s). Modern game characters almost always also tends to be made too flamboyant, too colourful, too spritey, too jolly, cracking a joke in the middle of battle etc. This is why I personally appreciate characters such as Jaheira and Sten the Qunari, because they were more low-key, and esepcially Jaheira was reacting to the situation she was in more realistically.

The dialogue betwen you and a given companion doesn't have to lead to a massive all-consuming, life-altering conclusion in order to be meaningful. The small things, the little details, you know. That matters. That's where the difference is at. But again, I respect that you have a different opinion. ;)

I agree that those dialogues you mentioned are good examples of companion interaction that enhances immersion. But such a level of location/situation dependent comments were quite plentiful in DA:O and ME too.

In other words, we may say that BG has set the bar before DA:O, ME when it comes to giving a bit more life and backstory to companions in an RPG.

But for other things like a more intricate approval system, inter-companion interactions, cinematic cutscenes, etc. are certainly an evolution that such later titles like DA/ME have achieved.

It doesn't mean that the change should be appreciated by everyone, of course, and I can partly understand your stance on this matter as I also feel certain aspects of such a system a bit forced, thus immersion breaking.

But I think it'd be only fair to acknowledge it as an 'evolution' - whether each of us prefer it or not - nonetheless because such changes have undoubtedly become popular so that many other games have built upon the idea since then - in other words, raising the bar regarding such a system.

Sure. We can also agree that there has been evolution. No denying. The cutscenes are a direct result of improved engines/graphical capablities. The approval system, if you fancy that, also an evolution of sorts, I suppose, even if i don't necessarily favour it. It depends on how it is carried out. I'm not necessarily opposed to companions having a approval bar, but I don't want to grovel and appease. I want it to be organic.

The interactions between the companions, however, were the same in BG 2 and DA.O I would say. Companions were interacting with each other in short dialogues in both games. There is bickering between them, and sometimes more amicable tone. Did you know, for example, that Aerie potentially can romance Haer'Dalis ? Minsc interacts with everyone, pretty much, Jaheira interacts with Aerie, picking on her a little, so forth, so forth. There was plenty of interactions between the companions. The main difference, as i remember it, is that the interactions between the characters in DA:O were significantly more often of the bickering, quarreling type. The party size was also only 4 rather than 6, which meant that the same companions were often engaging with each other, in BG 2 it was maybe a bit more divided, not least because the total amount of companions was higher.

[Streeja]

Rankings for character enjoyment is different for usability, class fit, etc. So this could be all over the board. But for the ones I like to interact with are:

1. Laezael
2. Shadowheart
3. ...
4. ...
97. Gale
98. Wyll
99. Astarian

You can insert goblin, animals, ever a tree stump in the missing spots. All better than I like talking to the last 3 on the list.

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by Streeja:

Rankings for character enjoyment is different for usability, class fit, etc. So this could be all over the board. But for the ones I like to interact with are:

1. Laezael
2. Shadowheart
3. ...
4. ...
97. Gale
98. Wyll
99. Astarian

You can insert goblin, animals, ever a tree stump in the missing spots. All better than I like talking to the last 3 on the list.

Aren't you the witty one ? :) I can actually relate, with the bottom two. My jury is still out on Gale, Shadowheart and Lae'zel, since I haven't explored them or interacted with them that much, as I mentioned in OP.

I read a rumour that this Karlach (tiefling) character will potentially be a companion in the full release, eve though she seems to have the same face model as my character. I suppose that can change come full release. It also wouldn't surprise me if Halsin turns out to be a companion as well, given his presence in camp after events have been concluded in the druid grove.

[Aldain]

My pet rock > The Entire (current) BG3 Cast.

[Streeja]

In all fairness, I will say that my first play through I wanted to talk with all of them, because they had just different backstories (even though I wanted to knife Astarian from the get go due to attitude). I applaud Larian for that effort.

But after the newness wears off and playthrough 4+, I couldn't help but to avoid my least favorite ones.

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by Streeja:

In all fairness, I will say that my first play through I wanted to talk with all of them, because they had just different backstories (even though I wanted to knife Astarian from the get go due to attitude). I applaud Larian for that effort.

But after the newness wears off and playthrough 4+, I couldn't help but to avoid my least favorite ones.

Really ? Playthrough 4+ ? You've played the game to death then before it even comes out. The novelty wears off and the entire Act 1 will be of little interest to you come full release.
I've done 1 playthorugh, and I didn't even do the Bog/Teaside Tavern or whatever it was called. I decided to save that entire area for the full release. I also left a small part of the Underdark untouched, and I didn't really explore the dialogue with the companions much, in part because I'm not convinced they appeal to me so much, but also because I didn't want to play the game to death before the full game comes out.

You need to know when to stop, man ;)

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Pumis:

5. Shadowheart
Too old for liking overly edgy characters. Annoying to please as well.

Speak for yourself and don't try speak for all older people or be clear and say that younger you bet you would enjoying her. And FYI I'm around the 60.