Rank the tanks?

[goobyplz]

Just wondering what everyone thinks the best tank classes by rank are. Tanks are pretty much berserker, fighter, paladin and ranger, since they have d10+ hp and all the heavy armor. Plz note, I am not interested in a dps that can tank, I want the tankiest tanky boy, and then maybe you can consider damage too, or other utilities.

Granted, I don't know so much about tanking in DnD and its hard to guess what berserker and paladin will be like since they arent out yet, but just tell me what you think the best ones are by tabletop DnD standards are and we can go from there.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

But having 1 AC lower than your next lowest AC character virtually guarantees you will get attacked.

I think the goal here should be to stack as much hp as you can with damage resistance and just be a pin cushion while getting healed.

The tank's AC doesn't have to be "low", just 1 lower than the next lowest character. So if all your other characters had AC 20, then you'd make a Barb-Druid with AC 19.

[TheBlueFox]

Gonna be somewhat difficult to have High AC in Bear form so that won't be an issue.

Thankfully unarmored defense DOES work in bear form, so you'll have AC 14 or 15 (I forget what the bear's starting AC is... 12?) I haven't looked at the bears stats in a while.

you only NEED to go Barbarian 3 for bear totem, so you can put the rest into Druid so it gets as many bonus action self heals as possible.

The one bad thing is that a bear-barian isn't able to defend against poison/disease, and if it cannot attack every single turn it loses it's rage, and loses it's damage reduction.


One of the reasons I don't recommend going Bear-Barian, is that... well... a pure barbarian has more HP than a bear, deals more damage than a bear, and can Extra-attack with magical weapons

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Here's another possibility (although I don't know if Bladesinger will be in BG3 or not):

Bladesinger Wizard 10th Level
Barbarian (either Path of the Ancestral Guardian or Path of the Totem Warrior Bear) 4th Level

You're going to have to put points into Str, Dex, Con AND Int so it's a little bit MAD, but you get AC equal to 10+ (Dex, Con, Int) ability modifiers. This character is easier if you are rolling for stats, but if you are going to use pt. buy then I would prioritize my stats like this: Str, Con, Dex and Int last (because we won't really be attacking with spells most of the time).

Most of your spells are going to be long duration prep spells - so, Longstrider...maybe Mage Armor (not sure how that stacks with Unarmored Defense and Bladesong...might work), etc. Anything with a duration of all day. Maybe False Life for temp hp. Cast these first thing in the "morning" and then forget about casting spells for the rest of the day.

When you rage you won't be prevented from using Bladesong (only casting or concentrating, and Bladesong isn't a spell so you're good).

If you took Path of the Totem Warrior Bear, then you will get damage resistance to every form of damage except Psychic damage. If you took Path of Ancestral Guardians then your ancestor spirits will harass the first creature you hit while raging and that creature will get disadvantage on attack rolls against anyone other than you, and if they manage to hit someone other than you anyway then that character gets damage resistance against their attacks. Unfortunately, this only lasts for one turn (per rage), so I'd probably go with Path of the Totem Warrior Bear and get permanent damage resistance.

When you also activate Bladesong you will add your Int modifier to your AC as well as your Dex and Con modifiers. This could max out at +15 for 25 AC if you managed to somehow max out all three ability scores, but since we're aiming for just 1 below our next highest AC character it's ok if we don't max it out right away (and we can supplement with things like Rings or Cloaks of Protection later on).

At level 10 Wizard you'll also get Song of Defense, which let's you use your reaction to absorb damage equal to 5x the level of spell the spell slot you spend. As a 10th Level Wizard you will have up to two 5th level spell slots to use on this for 25 damage absorbed per spell slot (and damage resistance in addition to that...so a 50 damage hit would first be reduced by 25, and then halved by damage resistance to 13). It's also a great way to spend any unused spell slots for the day that you didn't spend on all day duration spells and you can trigger this during a rage because it isn't a spell.

Possible spells to take (by level):

5th level - Planar Binding, Seeming

4th level - Charm Monster, Hallucinatory Terrain, Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum

3rd level - Animate Dead, Glyph of Warding, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Magic Circle, Phantom Steed, Remove Curse, Tiny Servant, Tongues, Water Breathing

2nd level - Arcane Lock, Augury, Continual Flame, Darkvision, Gentle Repose, Magic Mouth, Misty Step, Nystul's Magic Aura, Rope Trick, See Invisibility,

1st level - Alarm, Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, False Life, Find Familiar, Longstrider, Mage Armor, Tenser's Floating Disc, Unseen Servant.

[Fishmonger]

Tank Tier List
(Based off of pen & paper and hopefully added to BG3 at some point in the future)

S-tier
Barbarian (Totem Warrior, Bear)
Druid (Circle of the Moon)
Barbarian (Ancestral Guardian)
Fighter (Battle Master)

A-tier
Barbarian (Other paths)
Paladin (Oath of Redemption)
Paladin (Oath of the Ancients)
Fighter (Eldritch Knight)
Cleric (Life)

B-tier
Paladin (Other archetypes)
Fighter (Other archetypes)
Cleric (Forge, Tempest, War)
Wizard (Bladesinger)
Druid (Other circles)
Bard (College of Swords)

C-tier
Warlock (Hexblade)
Bard (College of Valor)
Ranger
Monk (Kensei)
Wizard (Abjuration)

(Did not include subclasses from Tasha's)

Notes

S-tier
Bear Totem Barbarians get resistance to all damage except psychic when raging. Healing is a lot more effective on them as a result because they essentially have double hit points.

Druids get a large pool of hit points in certain animal forms. This is especially true for a Moon Druid who can wild shape into stronger beasts. They can also heal themselves as a bonus action. Druids can also come with a wide range of utility and control spells.

Ancestral Guardian Barbarians can cause disadvantage to an enemy's attacks and give their allies resistance to those attacks. Their ability to protect their party only gets better at later levels. (Really hope to see this subclass in the game)

Fighters can already wear the best armor and equip themselves with shields. Battle Masters get these benefits and also have a lot of utility to protect themselves and their party from damage. Battle Masters are very flexible overall and can be built in a variety of ways.

A-tier
Barbarians get resistance to non-magical damage when raging.

Ancients Paladins eventually grant a magic resistance aura.

Redemption Paladins eventually can take their allies damage when allies are hit.

Eldritch Knights get access to the shield spell and other useful utility spells from the wizard spell list.

Life Clerics have the best healing ability in the game hands down and get heavy armor.

[Hobocop]

Messaggio originale di TheBlueFox:

One of the reasons I don't recommend going Bear-Barian, is that... well... a pure barbarian has more HP than a bear, deals more damage than a bear, and can Extra-attack with magical weapons

Non-Bear-Barians can also just throw a javelin or something to maintain their rage if needed.

[Zaris]

If you want a tank just took anyone who can wear heavy armor+shield and pull all bonus armor items on him. For example my warrior in Solasta had about 27 AC in the end, most enemies could only hit him with a 18-20 roll in the end. My warrior in BG2 was at -14 AC or something like that, only dragons could hit him later on.

On top of that tanking in D&D games like Baldurs Gate 1+2, Icewind Dale 1+2 is normally outsourced to your summons for most fights, just summon 5 skeletons, monsters, elementals whatever, buff them, send them in and that's it. Even Solasta with its restricted D&D5 ruleset became a joke after the mage could summon his 4 elementals with 46hp each.

Messaggio originale di Pumis:

There are no tanks in 5e, since there is no aggro control in dungeon and dragons. However closest thing for tank in this game is conquest paladin.

Depending on the game implementation there is at least some kind of control, For most games i've played in this genre the monsters usually stick to the nearest / target. In BG1,2 if a monster attacked your mage just move him away and let a melee hit the monster, the monster swaps his target after 2-3 sec. The same in Solasta, put a melee besides a monster and they target him and move the ranged / mage away.

A crappy implementation would be something like BG3 did and let the AI always focus target the one guy with the lowest AC / HP or whatever it was like many already critized (i never really saw that in my playthrough but most fights were over quite so fast).

[Dorok]

Messaggio originale di pandariuskairos:

You don't want a high AC in BG3 if you're trying to "tank" - enemies won't attack you first.

You want a low AC and as many hp's, temporary hp's, and healing as you can get.

I'd go with a Barbarian-Moon Druid multiclass. Barb will give you a bigger hit die for whatever levels you put into it and you can totally go into battle nude (just keep your AC 1 below whatever your next lowest character is). The Druid levels will grant you healing spells and the ability to shift into animal form for even more hp (as well as lunar men for yet more hp).

Damage resistance also helps a ton so pick some up anywhere you can get it (Ranger's have a choice of DR against three different types of elemental damage).

Multiclass isn't yet in BG3.

Moon Druid is still the best hit sponge I saw in the game. The healing druid spells doesn't matter for resilience in combat and I wouldn't even suggest memorize them for that. But morph has healing abilities very useful that don't need any druid spell. Moreover morph back to druid and back to morph fully heal the morph. There's nothing equivalent to that.

Only the armor would allow counter balance but then it's another matter and using two characters for "tanking" abilities, one for support.

But also I wonder if currently Moon druid is really properly balanced and is a figure of what will be release version.

[ShiroiWolf]

In terms of "Drawing agro" style of MMO-Tanking, those options are limited, and usually eat into resources such as spell casting. They exist, but really, to be honest, if you got a good chance of compelling someone through magic to focus on attacking you, chances you've got a just as good chance to have someone cast Charm Person/Monster, Suggestion, Dominate, etc etc

The other common form of Tanking is Zoning/Threat range, by trying to limit opponent's mobility by covering a wide area with the area you threatened, often augmented by using a polearm

5e tries to address this in a different method, via "Distraction"-style debuffs. Appears much more frequently, tends to be less resource intensive, and works typically on the method of "Creature must attack the source of this effect, or roll with disadvantage on attack rolls against other targets"

As for which classes can do this? Usually Paladin, Fighters of certain subclasses, Barbarian usually relies on just being a huge damage dealer and sponge to be a threat on its own, but there are several options in Xanathar's Guide to Everything that have Barbarian Subclasses that lean more heavily into the tanking role. That said, both of the core options (Berserker and Totem) work perfectly well as tanks

Cleric is very dependent on Subclass, but usually, look for the options that can have Heavy armor as a starting point. Life is definitely an option for their AC and maximizing their ability to heal.

Non-Core class option: Artificer of the Armorer or Battlesmith subclasses. Armorer has a melee-focused suit option that constantly deals Distracting strikes and can augment their survivability with a pool of Temp HP. Battlesmith has a large variety of defensive support spells and a minion called a Steel Defender which has a reaction that deflects one attack each round

[Bulldozer]

Druid in bear form? That's what I've been doing. Works pretty well too.

[.Master Jiren, The Strongest]

Am I the only one who is aware of the Compelled Duel spell, which forces an enemy to attack your character? It's a Paladin spell. You know what else Paladins can do? There's one subclass that has a taunt as his channel divinity, basically a divinity version of compelled duel.

Ya'll just not play Paladin or what? Paladin also has shield and heavy armor proficiency with defense fighting style, base AC of 21, plus Shield of Faith for AC 23. They have D10 hit die and often max Con as high as possible.

I dont know why you included Ranger as a tank but then precluded Cleric who literally has healing and a heavy armor subclass.

But, personally, I would build a full caster with plate armor. Best way to do that is Cleric, but you can use feats to get even a wizard or sorcerer to have plate armor, but a d6 hit die is pretty bad. So, Cleric is pretty much the best, but people who are furries will like the wildshape tanking of Druids because its actually pretty damn powerful.

So, in my opinion, the best tanks aren't anything you mentioned, its Cleric and Druid. But, if you NEED to have a taunt ability, then your only option is Oath of the Crown Paladin, who gets Compelled Duel and Command at level 3 as first level spells. Command you can say "Fight me" or just "Duel" if your dm is a jerk. Oath of the Crown has Champions Call which forces enemies to be unable to move away from you, meaning the only creature they can really target is you, and thats how the DM should rule it as thats the RAI of the ability. People will argue its not a true taunt, but DnD isnt about true taunting, and you wanted the closest thing to a tank, so there you go, Oath of the Crown Paladin is the closest thing to a tank you can get. However, you might find the lack of spells rough as Paladins dont get as many or as powerful spells as Clerics, so, you might do Forge Domain Cleric so that you have heavy armor, if you made an elf or dwarf you'll start off with a weapon proficiency so you can choose to fight with weapons if magic isnt your thing, get Green Flame Blade with a feat or some other method and you'll be able to use your weapon and cantrip at the same time while having plate armor as a full caster thats capable of healing and spamming taunt spells like compelled duel which you'll have to grab with a feat or some other method.

If your DM is cool you could ask to use Protection Domain cleric who gets Compelled Duel as part of his subclass, and gets heavy armor too. And his abilities are more about defending others, you'd need a feat or a couple levels in Paladin if you wanted to grab Protection Fighting Style to allow you to use a shield to defend your allies as a reaction, but I'm not sure what cleric could get shield proficiencies, but if you took 2 levels in Paladin and the rest levels in the Cleric Domain of your choice, you'd have heavy armor, martial weapons, shields, protection magic, taunting, and full casting.

Unfortunately none of this is in BG3 yet. Currently there is absolutely nothing you can do in BG3 to be a tank other than maxing Con with a Fighter and hoping for the best, but honestly that still leaves you with a mere 19 AC at best and the AI wont even bother attacking you at that point so, you'd be like a reverse tank as you'd just be directing enemies to al lyour squishy allies since the AI refuses to fight anyone with high ac. Command is also not great in this game so far but can be used to stun multiple enemies, but since you can't roll stats (Without cheat ;) ) you wont be able to get a very high spell save DC so enemies will very often beat your spells every single time.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Messaggio originale di Zaris:

If you want a tank just took anyone who can wear heavy armor+shield and pull all bonus armor items on him. For example my warrior in Solasta had about 27 AC in the end, most enemies could only hit him with a 18-20 roll in the end. My warrior in BG2 was at -14 AC or something like that, only dragons could hit him later on.

I explained why that doesn't work in BG3 - enemies will ignore that character and instead attack someone with a lower AC because they have a better chance of hitting it.

If you want to "tank" you need to have the lowest AC. Always set your tank's AC to 1 lower than the next lowest AC in the party so that enemies will prefer to attack the tank if possible.

[TheBlueFox]

Take the above with a grain of salt.

High AC works fine, it works fine. It works fine

All you need to do is be sure to keep your lower AC characters as harder to REACH targets.

Make the rogue use hide, make the ranger reach a high platform, hide the wizard in a fog cloud or misty step somewhere people can't get to him.

Problem solved, High AC Tank takes the hits

[Anaztazioch]

By the terms on how AI plays this game, id say Gale is 1st pick as a tank, regardless if hes good or no.
Cant wait for stoneskin, loved playing stoneskin fist figher mage XD

[Anaztazioch]

Messaggio originale di RealDealBreaker:

in d&d 5e there are no such thing as tanks. There is no way (outside of a few VERY rare skills/abilities) to make an enemy want to/force them target you.

Wait till they let us play as Tank, I mean Gale

[Lax]

If you pop Gales mage armor he basically becomes invisible to the enemies.