Rank the tanks?

[goobyplz]

Just wondering what everyone thinks the best tank classes by rank are. Tanks are pretty much berserker, fighter, paladin and ranger, since they have d10+ hp and all the heavy armor. Plz note, I am not interested in a dps that can tank, I want the tankiest tanky boy, and then maybe you can consider damage too, or other utilities.

Granted, I don't know so much about tanking in DnD and its hard to guess what berserker and paladin will be like since they arent out yet, but just tell me what you think the best ones are by tabletop DnD standards are and we can go from there.

[Lax]

Honestly my Life Domain cleric is perfectly able to tank right now with my group composition. But that's probably not sustainable long term. Maybe It's just working right now because everything is still low level in early access?

I'm hardly an expert or veteran of DnD, but just from what I've seen so far, Clerics seem like a REALLY good class to me.

[RealDealBreaker]

in d&d 5e there are no such thing as tanks. There is no way (outside of a few VERY rare skills/abilities) to make an enemy want to/force them target you. The closest d&d has to 'tanking' is characters who are melee oriented characters who would be more akin to 'off tanks' or 'melee dps' from MMOs. For example, you suggest the berserker (i suspect you meant barbarians as a whole, not just the breserker subclass) are very survivable (half daamge from slashing, piercing, and blunt damage when raging) and have d12 hit dice but they also deal a ton of damage that compares to or even exceeds classes that would without a doubt be calssified as 'dps' (e.g., rogue, monk).

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Due to the way targeting works in BG3 (enemies will attack the character with the lowest AC in the group), you want to have your lowest AC character also have the most hp, temporary hp, and healing possible. They are basically your "bullet sponge".

[RealDealBreaker]

A further comment. Not only are there not really any 'taunt' equivalents in d&d 5e, d&d doesn't have an 'aggro' or 'enmity' mechanic like there is in all MMOs that I am familiar with. And if there is no way to force enemies to focus a specific character, then there can't be any tanks.

[Lax]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

A further comment. Not only are there not really any 'taunt' equivalents in d&d 5e, d&d doesn't have an 'aggro' or 'enmity' mechanic like there is in all MMOs that I am familiar with. And if there is no way to force enemies to focus a specific character, then there can't be any tanks.

+1

Does anyone know if there are any plans to add any form of taunt or "crowd control" abilities in the future? Edit* I suppose there are some already. such as sleep and what-not

[Hobocop]

Paladins have a spell called Compelled Duel on their list that heavily encourages a singular enemy to engage them for a minute if they fail a Wisdom saving throw. Beyond that, not really. Most other crowd control spells are general disables. And the paladin would probably be better off presenting themselves as a threat that is too dangerous to ignore by pumping that spell slot into Divine Smite.

[goobyplz]

Jesus guys, so many semantics! That's not what I am concerned about, I am looking for what you think are the best classes for managing tanking hits. Nevermind agro. When a character gets hit, who handles it best?

Based on this criteria, I think its safe to assume that the best classes for this are the classes with the most HP, ergo the aforementioned four classes. Then the classes of these who can best avoid a hit, which I am assuming is AC based, thus these same four classes, since they can all wear plate and use shields.

THEN, there is perhaps an argument of mitigation and healing. If I remember correctly, barbarians get some way to half all damage for a while. This seems good, but maybe it is outweighed by paladins and rangers being able to take a hit and then heal it away. I never played fighter much and don't know what abilities they could have to weigh in here. THIS is what I am looking for, forget everything else.

[Lax]

Originally posted by AOC Karen Smollett:

Jesus guys, so many semantics! That's not what I am concerned about, I am looking for what you think are the best classes for managing tanking hits. Nevermind agro. When a character gets hit, who handles it best?

Based on this criteria, I think its safe to assume that the best classes for this are the classes with the most HP, ergo the aforementioned four classes. Then the classes of these who can best avoid a hit, which I am assuming is AC based, thus these same four classes, since they can all wear plate and use shields.

THEN, there is perhaps an argument of mitigation and healing. If I remember correctly, barbarians get some way to half all damage for a while. This seems good, but maybe it is outweighed by paladins and rangers being able to take a hit and then heal it away. I never played fighter much and don't know what abilities they could have to weigh in here. THIS is what I am looking for, forget everything else.

I hear you. It's just that how the mechanics and the A.I. work in BG3 mitigate a tanks usefulness. At least to a sense. the A.I. generally goes after those with the least amount of AC. So tanks really can't act like a tank in the conventional way because the AI doesn't allow it. I would like to have a dedicated damage absorber in my party but it's sometimes difficult because the A.I. can completely ignore him/her if they so wish to.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

A further comment. Not only are there not really any 'taunt' equivalents in d&d 5e, d&d doesn't have an 'aggro' or 'enmity' mechanic like there is in all MMOs that I am familiar with. And if there is no way to force enemies to focus a specific character, then there can't be any tanks.

D&D might not, but BG3 does. Enemies seem to target the character with the lowest AC.

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by Lax:

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

A further comment. Not only are there not really any 'taunt' equivalents in d&d 5e, d&d doesn't have an 'aggro' or 'enmity' mechanic like there is in all MMOs that I am familiar with. And if there is no way to force enemies to focus a specific character, then there can't be any tanks.

+1

Does anyone know if there are any plans to add any form of taunt or "crowd control" abilities in the future? Edit* I suppose there are some already. such as sleep and what-not

Not in 5th edition as far as I know or would expect. There are a few like the paladin spell "compelled duel" that Hobocop mentioned. Other abilities that are 'pseudo-taunts' (i.e., that make it harder/more painful to attack others the Ancestral Guardians feature from the Ancestor Guardian Barbarian (THe first enemy you hit on your turn while raging is the harassed by your ancestor guardian spirits making it so that enemy has disadvantage on attacks against anyone other than you and IF they hit one of your allies, your ally resists half the damage). And the Caviller Fighter also gets a feature that allows them an attack of opportunity against an enemy that attacks an ally.

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by AOC Karen Smollett:

Jesus guys, so many semantics! That's not what I am concerned about, I am looking for what you think are the best classes for managing tanking hits. Nevermind agro. When a character gets hit, who handles it best?

Based on this criteria, I think its safe to assume that the best classes for this are the classes with the most HP, ergo the aforementioned four classes. Then the classes of these who can best avoid a hit, which I am assuming is AC based, thus these same four classes, since they can all wear plate and use shields.

THEN, there is perhaps an argument of mitigation and healing. If I remember correctly, barbarians get some way to half all damage for a while. This seems good, but maybe it is outweighed by paladins and rangers being able to take a hit and then heal it away. I never played fighter much and don't know what abilities they could have to weigh in here. THIS is what I am looking for, forget everything else.

The 'semantics' came because you used the term 'tanking' and and said you weren't super familiar with 5e. So as someone who knows a lot about 5e and has introduced players to the game from MMO backgrounds (where the term tanking is most frequently used) I was explaining that the term tanking isn't really applicable to d&d. Since you are 'looking for what you think are the best classes for managing tanking hits' I would that you generally have the sense of it (i.e., high hp + high AC will tend to be hit less often and survive damage better). However, there are other sources of damage that do not target AC (i.e., spells or abilities that force the target to make a saving throw). Most of these force a DEX save (e.g., fire ball) or WIS save (e.g., hold person). A much smaller number of abilities force other saves. So no matter how high you stack your AC (making yourself less likely to be hit), you will still be vulnerable to some abilities.

[Aldain]

Normally being able to use AoO and grid based tactics can make tanks viable in some fashion, but BG3 kind of is so free-form that it doesn't matter, also bonus action jump/shove/etc also makes controlling the battlefield not really viable.

There's also the Protection Fighter class passive which is rendered utterly useless since many enemies will just throw an AoE at you instead.

If there's one issue with BG3 I'd say things are too mobile, not being able to passively control enemies with positioning is currently a weak point of the game.

[TheBlueFox]

Tank = Class that can take hits and deal damage, makes itself a nuisance and a target. Absorbs hits.

There is one clear and simple answer...

The paladin.

Paladins are immune to disease, poison, and fear.
They can self restore with Lay On Hands
They wear heavy armor AND shields for incredibly high AC.
They can choose a fighting style for even more defense, or more damage while still using a shield
They can deal burst damage when confirming a hit
They gain access to even more defensive options with SPELLS (Shield of Faith, protection from evil/good, Sanctuary, guardian of faith, etc.)
They add their Charisma to their saving throws

Give a paladin The Sentinel feat when it comes out and throw him head first into an enemy group


Next in line? Probably the Barbarian.

High HP
Constitution = AC, so HP IS your armor AND your armor is your HP (Unarmored defense)
Primal path leads to Bear totem, which means "While Raging, you get resistance to ALL DAMAGE EXCEPT PSYCHIC"
While Raging you CANNOT DIE (If you succeed a constitution save)

Sadly, Barbarians lack the ability to self heal, but with the abundance of healing items and taking 1/2 damage from all sources, you should be okay for a while in that regard.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

You don't want a high AC in BG3 if you're trying to "tank" - enemies won't attack you first.

You want a low AC and as many hp's, temporary hp's, and healing as you can get.

I'd go with a Barbarian-Moon Druid multiclass. Barb will give you a bigger hit die for whatever levels you put into it and you can totally go into battle nude (just keep your AC 1 below whatever your next lowest character is). The Druid levels will grant you healing spells and the ability to shift into animal form for even more hp (as well as lunar men for yet more hp).

Damage resistance also helps a ton so pick some up anywhere you can get it (Ranger's have a choice of DR against three different types of elemental damage).

[TheBlueFox]

Not quite true, but okay.

Enemies in baldur's gate do not see high AC targets as invisible. They
1. Check who is in range
2. Check who is easier to harm
3. tries to maximize damage potential based off who meets the above criteria.


For example, if you have a fighter 5 feet away from a worg, and a mage 30 feet away at the top of a ledge, the worg will not run to attack the mage, he WILL attack the fighter, because the Worg will not be able to move to the mage AND attack it.

Positioning is key. You need to make sure the tank is the "Best possible target" for it to absorb the hits.

Also with the sentinel feat, when it comes out, if you move your tank to an enemy, and the enemy tries to ignore your Tank, The AOO that comes from your tank stops enemies from moving, making them unable to walk away.