Wizard Nerfed Into Oblivion.

[PepsiSucks]

While I get making Long rests more sparse is *kinda* better. It totally destroys the wizard class.

At LEAST give the wizard their Arcane Recovery on short rest if we keep this Food system PLEASE!

I mean Fighters get their action surge on short rest, and Wizards aren't even really good until mid-late game anyway when they've had time and resources to learn a bunch of spells.

I dunno. Just kinda seems like BS to me how much better fighters are than every other class. :/

[Planeforger]

In the pen and paper game, you generally won't get heaps of opportunities to long rest in the middle of a dungeon, and Wizards are balanced around that.

So I don't think limited long rests is much of a nerf. Wizards get excellent cantrips in 5e, which covers most of the weaknesses of their limited spellslots.

[SnarkOne]

I disagree on the nerf, I think It's just an illusion posing as a "nerf". There's too much food that you can find around & buying a 3 supply packs is less than 100 gold. You are not limited on where you can long-rest, so you can always have a full set of spell slots on each fight.

Once you reach level 3, I think Wizards are OP; especially because you can learn every spell that's on a scroll. I'll pick a Wizard over a Fighter any day, due to utility of the environment, which is what the fights are designed around.

[God Queen 158]

Every companion starts with a supply pack and food is extremely plentiful in the game. Is it really that bad?

I've never been unable to full rest when I needed to.

[TheBlueFox]

Umm... whut?

You do have arcane recovery...

And I'm sorry but since when can a fighter deal 8d6 damage, at range, from stealth, to everyone within a 20 foot radius, and still deal half as much on a save.

You need resting to stop them from decimating every encounter in 2 turns.


Edit: RECHARGE arcane recovery on short rest? Oh HELL no

[alex]

Wizard is supposed to be weak at low levels, and even then, it's still one of the strongest classes in EA.

Wizards can outright end entire fights with Grease and Sleep, they can learn any spell they want from Scrolls giving them the largest amount of versatility in the game, and they have THE strongest magic item in game, which gives them the highest damage both in terms of max damage and how consistent it is out of any class in the game.

The necklace that adds a d4 of Psychic damage to every magic missile averages out to 18 (6d4 + 3) damage at level 1 which gives them a higher average damage than any other first level spell in the game that is guaranteed to hit and has the best damage types available. At level 2 that goes up to 24 (8d4 + 4) damage. Magic Missiles cast at level 3 with this necklace is effectively more damage than fireball (10d4 + 5 guaranteed vs. 8d6 save for half. The only thing that save Fireball here is that it's an AOE).

So in summary, Wizards have the highest damage, the largest amount of utility, and the largest amount of CC out of any class in EA before they even access 3rd level spells. And you're calling them weak.

[TheHero]

Originally posted by PepsiSucks:

While I get making Long rests more sparse is *kinda* better. It totally destroys the wizard class.

At LEAST give the wizard their Arcane Recovery on short rest if we keep this Food system PLEASE!

I mean Fighters get their action surge on short rest, and Wizards aren't even really good until mid-late game anyway when they've had time and resources to learn a bunch of spells.

I dunno. Just kinda seems like BS to me how much better fighters are than every other class. :/

I like to think that Fighters action surge is based on their physical prowess as in a well trained guy can more often then not use a burst of speed or action, however you like to name it in real life.
A Magic user instead has almost no physical prowess besides some multiclasses.
He has his other stats, but MAGIC in itself.... hmm its the option to do things which normally are not even possible. So yes im ok with having magicusers need to rest for such feats done. And of course Magic users shouldnt be so powerfull as surpassing Fighters without a balance.
So there you have a balance rule, which needs discussion how you want to implement said balance.
Magic is like me beeing lazy and wish the housework beeing done for itself. Then rest again for the next day to do it all over again ;)

[TheBlueFox]

Originally posted by Pumis:

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

Umm... whut?

You do have arcane recovery...

And I'm sorry but since when can a fighter deal 8d6 damage, at range, from stealth, to everyone within a 20 foot radius, and still deal half as much on a save.

You need resting to stop them from decimating every encounter in 2 turns.


Edit: RECHARGE arcane recovery on short rest? Oh HELL no

Hmm two handed sword basic attack +2d6, haste attack +2d6, criticalhit/kill attack 2d6 (with two handed feat), action surge +2d6. Add there martial dices and flat +10 from two handed weapon feat. Plus fire buff 1d4. Then math would look like something like this:
2d6+13+1d4+2d6+13+1d4+2d6+13+1d4+2d6+13+1d4
= Average 90 damage in single round.
All of this while ignoring rest of the buffs he can get into the damage.

True, I never said that fighter's CANT deal damage. If we're assuming that ALL of those attacks hit, and we do the same for the wizard, the average damage of a d6 is 3.5. 8x3.5 = 28 damage per target.

3 targets would be average 84 damage
4 targets would be average 112 damage

Not TERRIBLY hard to hit 3-4 people with a 20 foot radius sphere.
from stealth...
at 150 feet...

[Louis]

A lot of cantrips should be a little better than they are for sure. Sacred Flame especially but also things like Poison spray, Shocking Grasp and Chill Touch are way too weak. It's far too commonly better to just use a crossbow on a spellcaster. Hope Larian will do a balance pass on spells. I don't want them to fix these issues via items either.

I also think people are actually overestimating Fireball a little bit, it won't be all that overpowered since it's going to be a Dex Save which will cause half damage as often as Sacred Flame misses. At level 5 vs even a lowly 14 dex goblin that would be 30% of the time with a maxed out spellcasting stat. So the average damage goes down from 28 to about 24. Lightning Bolt is probably going to be better in this game because of the synergy with water and of course upcasting Scorching Ray is far superior for single target.

[TheBlueFox]

Originally posted by Louis:

A lot of cantrips should be a little better than they are for sure. Sacred Flame especially but also things like Poison spray, Shocking Grasp and Chill Touch are way too weak. It's far too commonly better to just use a crossbow on a spellcaster. Hope Larian will do a balance pass on spells. I don't want them to fix these issues via items either.

I also think people are actually overestimating Fireball a little bit, it won't be all that overpowered since it's going to be a Dex Save which will cause half damage as often as Sacred Flame misses. At level 5 vs even a lowly 14 dex goblin that would be 30% of the time with a maxed out spellcasting stat. So the average damage goes down from 28 to about 24. Lightning Bolt is probably going to be better in this game because of the synergy with water and of course upcasting Scorching Ray is far superior for single target.

The big benefit is that unlike with sacred flame, dex save spells still deal 1/2 of their damage to enemies that do succeed in the save. So even against throngs of little dudes, it's usually enough to still outright kill them.

Guaranteed damage in D&D is rated highly. That's why Magic Missile is one of the most powerful spells in the game, even at 1d4 dice for damage.

Fireball isn't Rated highly for no reason. I'm fairly certain that ANY SPELLCASTER would take Fireball, even if it doesn't fit their spell theme. Abjurer? Still takes fireball. A conjurer? Still takes fireball. Even a Diviner STILL takes fireball.

[Amix]

Wizard is second only to battlemaster subclass (not typical fighter keep in mind). It is still highly rewarding & versatile class.

It is important to note that Larian games give freedom to create strategies & one can always hope it stays that way.

Choosing the right subclass is important. Get your wizard high dexterity & maximum sleight of hand & You are free to get scrolls (level 1),ranged special arrows (average damage) or melee to save spells slots.

Game still gives you good level 1 scrolls easily which is a relief. Sleep scrolls, Mage armour, burning hands etc.

You do not need arcane recovery after every short rest. Because you will still run out of that option.

Everyone knows there is a special item in game which increases intelligence score to 18.
So you are again free to invest in other abilities.

[TheBlueFox]

Wizards don't take the headband. It Prevents them from getting int 20+ and memorizing spells is based off of raw int level. But if that doesnt matter go ahead

[Duke Dynamite 3D]

Full casters are by far and away THE strongest things in 5e lmao Fighter will never in his life get access to 8d6 fire damage in a 20 foot square let alone the rest of the toolkit wizard has. If you think casters are bad because you can't constantly rest to get your spell slots back you're unironically playing wrong.

[Amix]

I do not understand why community thinks fireball & meteor shower spells are great.

1. Fire is the most common resistance in game. Which means damage will be halved.

2. There are saving throws for such spells which halves the damage after success.

These are good spells & not something game breaking.

Paladin & Fighter will be our saviours.

[TheBlueFox]

Fireball is a great spell because at level 5 fighters go from 1 attack to 2.

Wizards go from 1 attack to "as many as I can fit into a 20 foot sphere"

Is fire often resisted? Yes. So your damage goes from 8d6 to 4d6... which is still the equivalent of a great sword hit from 150 feet away to AS MANY CREATURES in at 20 foot radius sphere.

You cant possibly say that the most iconic, most frequently used spell that NEVER gets un-memorized (except in a volcano setting) is not a good spell

Where is the "I didnt ask how big the room is, I said I cast greatsword" t shirt?

[TheBlueFox]

Perfect circumstances?

The minimum necessary is 3 enemies within 20 feet of eachother.

Even if an ally is caught in the blast it makes it the optimal decision because the enemy side is taking more damage. And it isn't hard to NOT hit your ally when your target is a "point in space" and not an object.

This is the reason clerics are not "healers" because healing as a whole is an inefficient usage of spells. Clerics are divine casters. NOT THAT you cant make a healing cleric work! Life clerics are amazing. But removing an enemy, mathematically, is in most accounts better than patching up a wound.

Yes you can detonate things but I'd say that's a plus because, again, 150 feet is a nice buffer space...


But I could make a whole thread on fireball...

Regardless this is about wizards, and wizards need to be shackled to rests to avoid being gods