Half-Orcs

[Máire]

Any idea when we'll be seeing playable half-orcs?

Are they not being included or something? How are they not a standard race but the gith are?

What about other expanded races from Volo's Guide? Was there an announcement I missed?

[Alealexi]

As far as we know per early access notes everything from PHB will be available by release.

[Hobocop]

I believe the goal is as much of the PHB as possible with extras as their discretion. SCAG half-elf racial variants are in, for example, as well as the different names for dwarf subraces despite their attributes being unchanged. Githyanki are in because mind flayers are a major part of the narrative so far, and it was an obvious inclusion.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Hobocop:

I believe the goal is as much of the PHB as possible with extras as their discretion. SCAG half-elf racial variants are in, for example, as well as the different names for dwarf subraces despite their attributes being unchanged. Githyanki are in because mind flayers are a major part of the narrative so far, and it was an obvious inclusion.

T'was not an 'obvious' inclusion, because Githyanki are extremely xenophobic. They don't really fit well with a mixed race party, unless those other races happen to be slaves.

Which is precisely what makes them being playable obvious and ripe with interesting storytelling opportunities.

[SnarkOne]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Hobocop:

I believe the goal is as much of the PHB as possible with extras as their discretion. SCAG half-elf racial variants are in, for example, as well as the different names for dwarf subraces despite their attributes being unchanged. Githyanki are in because mind flayers are a major part of the narrative so far, and it was an obvious inclusion.

T'was not an 'obvious' inclusion, because Githyanki are extremely xenophobic. They don't really fit well with a mixed race party, unless those other races happen to be slaves.

That being said, data miners have uncovered code and scripted dialogue (some of which is already voice acted) for a bunch of the more exotic races. We might expect to see them after release, either as free updates, or possibly DLC.

I believe that the xenophobic attributes and them not fitting well in a mixed party race is precisely what makes them a great addition to the available races. They cause conflict which is more interesting for the Player to solve. It comes down to a personal taste, but I think they are objectively more relevant to the main plot than most races due to the direction that Larian is taking the story.

[Syris]

everything in the PHB will be added by full release. the only reason Githyanki are a playable race is because the race is important to the story no other reason.

[THEBEAST6969]

dude call me racist but i dont like gith and i dont like how they treat people and as soon as they add another party member the githyanki chick is dead as soon as i meet her

[dulany67]

Originally posted by THEBEAST6969:

dude call me racist but i dont like gith and i dont like how they treat people and as soon as they add another party member the githyanki chick is dead as soon as i meet her

Of course gith also hate mindflayers, which could come in handy.

[Máire]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Hobocop:

I believe the goal is as much of the PHB as possible with extras as their discretion. SCAG half-elf racial variants are in, for example, as well as the different names for dwarf subraces despite their attributes being unchanged. Githyanki are in because mind flayers are a major part of the narrative so far, and it was an obvious inclusion.

T'was not an 'obvious' inclusion, because Githyanki are extremely xenophobic. They don't really fit well with a mixed race party, unless those other races happen to be slaves.

That being said, data miners have uncovered code and scripted dialogue (some of which is already voice acted) for a bunch of the more exotic races. We might expect to see them after release, either as free updates, or possibly DLC.

I agree, the gith are only obligatory from a marketing standpoint - 'unique forgotten realms content that we have no other way to showcase effectively'.

The gith as flavor are decades old at this point and they are boring - no one cares about their war because it only affects them, and they add literally nothing to the narrative as a result. All they do is talk about being better than everyone else and hating mind flayers - narrative elements which don't advance the story in any way or offer any opportunity for character growth.

They don't even make a good way to explore the Illithids as a subject, considering they hate them so much. We would learn WAY more about any subject from the dialogue of an open minded character - someone like Gale.

Lae'zel, like all gith, is too dismissive in general to provide good exposition about any subject. That's why her dialogue about 'ghaik' is repetitive and boring compared to Gale's illuminating speech about the features of ceremorphosis. Basically anyone else would offer better narrative opportunities than the gith - how about a Drow or another deep race? The Drow also interact with Illithids extensively.

I understand why the devs have to treat them as important, but the gith were invented on a whim by a ttrpg designer trying to push out content for an old edition release. They're role-playing kryptonite - poorly designed considering the game they were made for.

They make annoying protagonists who won't work with anyone else, don't care about the plot of the story, and don't want to interact with anyone the party meets - the only reason to include such a thing in any story, as a writer, is because a sweaty nerd thought it would be cool and just had to have it.

Illithids ARE cool, the astral sea IS cool - twin races of crybabies who don't care about the story they're in are NOT cool. being forced to include the gith because they technically belong in the same IP probably honestly reduced the quality of the story itself.

I don't hold it against the devs - if the cost of getting to make the next baldur's gate game was modelling gith ahead of half-orcs, I'd probably pay that price too.

Anyway, clearly I'm a big fan of the game, and D&D in general, or I wouldn't have this much to say.

I really love the voice acting they got for the goblins (I think some of them might have done samples for greenskins in Total Warhammer) and it's got me feeling really optimistic about the way that monstrous playable races will be presented once we get that far.

[Máire]

Originally posted by THEBEAST6969:

dude call me racist but i dont like gith and i dont like how they treat people and as soon as they add another party member the githyanki chick is dead as soon as i meet her

Same

[Máire]

Originally posted by Syris:

everything in the PHB will be added by full release. the only reason Githyanki are a playable race is because the race is important to the story no other reason.

good to know!

[Mr. Phil Good]

Originally posted by Lal:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

T'was not an 'obvious' inclusion, because Githyanki are extremely xenophobic. They don't really fit well with a mixed race party, unless those other races happen to be slaves.

That being said, data miners have uncovered code and scripted dialogue (some of which is already voice acted) for a bunch of the more exotic races. We might expect to see them after release, either as free updates, or possibly DLC.

I agree, the gith are only obligatory from a marketing standpoint - 'unique forgotten realms content that we have no other way to showcase effectively'.

The gith as flavor are decades old at this point and they are boring - no one cares about their war because it only affects them, and they add literally nothing to the narrative as a result. All they do is talk about being better than everyone else and hating mind flayers - narrative elements which don't advance the story in any way or offer any opportunity for character growth.

They don't even make a good way to explore the Illithids as a subject, considering they hate them so much. We would learn WAY more about any subject from the dialogue of an open minded character - someone like Gale.

Lae'zel, like all gith, is too dismissive in general to provide good exposition about any subject. That's why her dialogue about 'ghaik' is repetitive and boring compared to Gale's illuminating speech about the features of ceremorphosis. Basically anyone else would offer better narrative opportunities than the gith - how about a Drow or another deep race? The Drow also interact with Illithids extensively.

I understand why the devs have to treat them as important, but the gith were invented on a whim by a ttrpg designer trying to push out content for an old edition release. They're role-playing kryptonite - poorly designed considering the game they were made for.

They make annoying protagonists who won't work with anyone else, don't care about the plot of the story, and don't want to interact with anyone the party meets - the only reason to include such a thing in any story, as a writer, is because a sweaty nerd thought it would be cool and just had to have it.

Illithids ARE cool, the astral sea IS cool - twin races of crybabies who don't care about the story they're in are NOT cool. being forced to include the gith because they technically belong in the same IP probably honestly reduced the quality of the story itself.

I don't hold it against the devs - if the cost of getting to make the next baldur's gate game was modelling gith ahead of half-orcs, I'd probably pay that price too.

Anyway, clearly I'm a big fan of the game, and D&D in general, or I wouldn't have this much to say.

I really love the voice acting they got for the goblins (I think some of them might have done samples for greenskins in Total Warhammer) and it's got me feeling really optimistic about the way that monstrous playable races will be presented once we get that far.

Just as note, as you rant about your hate for the Gith. This is YOUR opinion, and you're welcome to have it but it's just that. A rather angry, heated opinion. I honestly enjoy Lae'zel and would like to see the character growth she'll no doubt have once we get out of early access and have the full game available. Is she my favorite? No. But considering she IS interacting with other people and IS creating dialog with other races it's only obvious that she herself will change because of those interactions and won't end up being a typical Githyanki depending on the choices made both with her and with the story itself.

So yes, rant away about how YOU hate the race and the character but stop trying to make it sound like anything you've said is anything more than YOU'RE opinion because not everyone will agree with you.

[Zmogysta]

I hope there would be Aasimars, 'cause Tieflings exist, why not Aasimars?

[Charnel]

Literally no one outside of the devs can tell you what races and when/if they'll be added to EA

[Mr. Phil Good]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Phyzzlesaurus Rex:

Just as note, as you rant about your hate for the Gith. This is YOUR opinion, and you're welcome to have it but it's just that.

No, this is established LORE. Githyanki are not a race, they are a culture / society.

The race is Gith, which is divided up into the pacifist monks of Limbo (Githzerai), and the interdimensional space pirates of the Astral Sea (Githyanki).

The Githyanki want absolutely nothing to do with anybody outside of their own people. They might take you as a slave, if they're feeling merciful. But the rest of the time, they view you as an inferior being who is not worthy of their time or consideration.

Lae'zel has literally no reason at all to continue traveling with us after we meet up with the Githyanki patrol. If she were adhering to the lore of the setting, she would have dumped us like flaming garbage after reuniting with her people.

Expect, if you played that far, she DOES stick with us and DOES have a reason. And again, this was more about Lal's apparently hatred, disgust and dislike of the race and speaking as if this was a fact.

I'm not arguing that the Githyanki aren't ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up individuals. I mean, honestly, they're not much different from the actual, factual, Spartan society. Not the one from 300, the ACTUAL Spartans. Lal's argues like they are such a pointless race, no one likes them, it was done only for marketing. Which is wrong because not everyone agrees with him. In fact he's the ONLY person I've seen spout such hate for the race.

What I'm getting to is basically this. The Githyanki have a narrative to add to the story, despite Lal's rant, whether he likes it or not. And, through that narrative I believe Lae'zel will change as is the way with stories of this nature. We see it a lot. Look at Jack or Miranda from Mass Effect. They were set in their ways too for very impactful reasons. Look at Loki from the MCU. These aren't the BEST examples, but they are examples of characters set on a path and then diverting due to interactions and emotional story telling so to assume that Lae'zel will have NO character growth is kind of... narrow minded and ignorant.

Please do not take that last part as an insult and I do not mean it to be harsh or insulting, just stating that the only way a story grows is through the growth of their characters. So to believe that there will be no character growth with Lae'zul is kind of foolish. Larian is pretty good at the story telling side of things so I trust that they will correctly grow that character. Or I should say, give us a chance to grow that character through reactions to our choices of dialog and actions through the game as this game doesn't exactly have a set narrative.

[Mr. Phil Good]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Phyzzlesaurus Rex:

Expect, if you played that far, she DOES stick with us and DOES have a reason. And again, this was more about Lal's apparently hatred, disgust and dislike of the race and speaking as if this was a fact.

I'm not arguing that the Githyanki aren't ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up individuals. I mean, honestly, they're not much different from the actual, factual, Spartan society. Not the one from 300, the ACTUAL Spartans. Lal's argues like they are such a pointless race, no one likes them, it was done only for marketing. Which is wrong because not everyone agrees with him. In fact he's the ONLY person I've seen spout such hate for the race.

What I'm getting to is basically this. The Githyanki have a narrative to add to the story, despite Lal's rant, whether he likes it or not. And, through that narrative I believe Lae'zel will change as is the way with stories of this nature. We see it a lot. Look at Jack or Miranda from Mass Effect. They were set in their ways too for very impactful reasons. Look at Loki from the MCU. These aren't the BEST examples, but they are examples of characters set on a path and then diverting due to interactions and emotional story telling so to assume that Lae'zel will have NO character growth is kind of... narrow minded and ignorant.

Please do not take that last part as an insult and I do not mean it to be harsh or insulting, just stating that the only way a story grows is through the growth of their characters. So to believe that there will be no character growth with Lae'zul is kind of foolish. Larian is pretty good at the story telling side of things so I trust that they will correctly grow that character. Or I should say, give us a chance to grow that character through reactions to our choices of dialog and actions through the game as this game doesn't exactly have a set narrative.

Except she's a Gith. The only option Lae'zel has for growth, is if she renounces Vlaakith and becomes a Githzerai.

They were not exaggerating previously, when they said that the Gith do nothing but war among themselves and talk about how much they hate mind flayers. In the 40+ years since their inception, this has been the one and only notable feature among the Gith.

Changing anything about the Gith this far in would require far more effort on WotC's part than just getting rid of alignment descriptors. It would require them to actually write some new content about the Gith race as a whole.

And I'm skeptical about her claims the tadpole can be cured. Not only does the dragon rider immediately order your execution if he finds out you're carrying one, but if you are playing as a fellow Githyanki, you can tell her that you've never heard of such a cure before. To which she flippantly dismisses you by saying "perhaps you simply weren't paying attention in your studies."

Even the way she describes how the 'cure' works when questioned about it, she makes it sounds more like the Githyanki are going to perform electro shock therapy, rather than an actual treatment option.

As for her having a reason to stick by with us after reuniting with her people, no she doesn't. The way that scenario should have gone is that Lae'zel approaches him, turns on the party, and when questioned about the weapon their queen is looking for, she hands it over without question or resistance.

There is absolutely nothing the dragon rider did that was acting out of character from how any other Githyanki would have behaved in that situation. I don't understand why Lae'zel accused him of being suspicious?

We're not talking about changing the entire race of Githyanki. We're talking about changing the mind of ONE person. Which, in all of cinema, books, stories, lore, history both fantasy and reality has always been possible. Look at Avatar (the blue aliens, not the bad air bender movie) perfect example of this. So yes, it is 100% possible that she changes. If fact, the more time she spends around us and not her people? It would be unnatural for her not to change. I'm not talking instant changes, drop of the hat personality and idealization changes. I'm talking about slow and subtle changes over the course of the story. Seeing her slowly question things and reconsider the way she views things or approaches things.

We also are still missing a lot of from act one. Just the fact we can save Shadowheart and get more of her story shows that. So you're still judging all of this as if act 1 is complete and we know everything, every story and every detail of Lae'zel. We don't.

I will agree though, it honestly sounds if the cure is either fake or just us being executed but she doesn't want to talk about that. Though, again, we still do not have the entirety of act one released or the dialog from Lae'zel yet. So we don't know what pieces of the puzzle we're missing.