Archer What is the point?

[Marchalis]

So I get melee as it does good damage, and tanks distract stuff for ranged to dump onto..

I get mages, because.. infinite long ranged dps plus a vast array of utility spells is great.

But Archer? I haven't played much but it's less damage, single target, and utility is extremely limited.... Maybe it scales later on?

[RealDealBreaker]

oh that's cute, someone thinking ranged is weak lol.

It barely does less damage (a long bow does 1d8 +dex [4.5+dex average] vs longs sword 1-handed 1d8+str [4.5+str] or 2handed 1s10+str [5.5+str]) and you are less likely to be hit becasue you aren't in the mix.

[Jack Hawklight]

By archer do you mean ranger?

[dolby]

archery is crap cos we only have crappy AOE arrows that are best at level one and do not scale well with levels at least not yet, maybe they fix that And we get good single target arrows like armor pen arrows and so on..

[Jack Hawklight]

Originally posted by dolby:

archery is crap cos we only have crappy AOE arrows that are best at level one and do not scale well with levels at least not yet, maybe they fix that And we get good single target arrows like armor pen arrows and so on..

Yeah, I'm still with you on the arrow thing dolby. There should be more speciality arrows that we can get that do different things and can use when needed. Even just arrows +1 would be a good start.

Edit: Would be nice if we could craft them as well...

[Aldain]

Rogues have Sneak Attack which makes bows hilariously effective as long as an ally is near the enemy you're shooting at.

Once we get level 5 Rangers and Fighters will be able to attack twice per round, doubling the possible damage output.

Bows are in no way weak, it's just being stuck at level 4 that's making it seem weaker than it is, though I do agree that we need some kind of non AoE specialty arrows like in Solasta, that will also help a lot.

[malkavius77]

Yeah lets make them like baldurs gate 1 where they were pretty much the best damage lol.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Funniesthobo:

Originally posted by dolby:

archery is crap cos we only have crappy AOE arrows that are best at level one and do not scale well with levels at least not yet, maybe they fix that And we get good single target arrows like armor pen arrows and so on..

Yeah, I'm still with you on the arrow thing dolby. There should be more speciality arrows that we can get that do different things and can use when needed. Even just arrows +1 would be a good start.

Edit: Would be nice if we could craft them as well...

yeah something anything i mean right now they are ok cos of the dip thing and hunter's mark - Sneak Attack

But at some point that dip damage will get scaled out and hunter's mark doesnt scale like sneak attack cos of the multiple attacks i guess...

any extra bit of damage later on would be cool. so i can try archer multiclass playthrough at some point.:)

[Jack Hawklight]

Originally posted by dolby:

yeah something anything i mean right now they are ok cos of the dip thing and hunter's mark - Sneak Attack

But at some point that dip damage will get scaled out and hunter's mark doesnt scale like sneak attack cos of the multiple attacks i guess...

any extra bit of damage later on would be cool. so i can try archer multiclass playthrough at some point.:)

Would be cool if they put in ones that have specific affects applies to the enemy as well, such as bleed. Also, if there were ones that work better against specific enemy types. Like a radiant arrow that only gives extra damage if used against undead. That sort of thing.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Funniesthobo:

Originally posted by dolby:

yeah something anything i mean right now they are ok cos of the dip thing and hunter's mark - Sneak Attack

But at some point that dip damage will get scaled out and hunter's mark doesnt scale like sneak attack cos of the multiple attacks i guess...

any extra bit of damage later on would be cool. so i can try archer multiclass playthrough at some point.:)

Would be cool if they put in ones that have specific affects applies to the enemy as well, such as bleed. Also, if there were ones that work better against specific enemy types. Like a radiant arrow that only gives extra damage if used against undead. That sort of thing.

exactly stuff like that would be cool so you get that bit of extra tatical options, stuff to do... so it brakes the combat loop and you don't just do the same thing over and over.

COs diping or castign hunters mark or whatever for 10000 time can and will get old:)

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by dolby:

Originally posted by Funniesthobo:

Would be cool if they put in ones that have specific affects applies to the enemy as well, such as bleed. Also, if there were ones that work better against specific enemy types. Like a radiant arrow that only gives extra damage if used against undead. That sort of thing.

exactly stuff like that would be cool so you get that bit of extra tatical options, stuff to do... so it brakes the combat loop and you don't just do the same thing over and over.

COs diping or castign hunters mark or whatever for 10000 time can and will get old:)

Ranged attacks do (slightly) less damage than melee but make up for it by being safer. There is not reason to make ranged attacks have any additional effects. Adding additional effects would only make ranged combat and cheese tactics more prevalent.

[dolby]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Originally posted by dolby:

exactly stuff like that would be cool so you get that bit of extra tatical options, stuff to do... so it brakes the combat loop and you don't just do the same thing over and over.

COs diping or castign hunters mark or whatever for 10000 time can and will get old:)

Ranged attacks do (slightly) less damage than melee but make up for it by being safer. There is not reason to make ranged attacks have any additional effects. Adding additional effects would only make ranged combat and cheese tactics more prevalent.

cheesing tactics got nothing to do with it, you can cheese with or without bleed or armor pen(insertwhatever) arrows...

And it's about like i said breaking that combat loop with extra tactical options that in turn make the game more fun.

Arrows are optional anyway so you can ignore them if you want. i guess you are ok with AOE arrows we have now? cos you didn't ask to remove those...

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by dolby:

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Ranged attacks do (slightly) less damage than melee but make up for it by being safer. There is not reason to make ranged attacks have any additional effects. Adding additional effects would only make ranged combat and cheese tactics more prevalent.

cheesing tactices got nothing to do with it you can cheese with or without bleed or armor pen(insertwhatever) arrows ...and its about like i said breaking that combat loop with extra tactical options that in turn make the game more fun.

Adding anything that helps ranged/stealth be more powerful makes cheese easier. therefore there will be more cheese.

Now to your argument about braking the combat loop to make it more interesting: they shouldn't mess with the 5e rules more than they already have. Besides, adding special arrows that do bleed is not any more engaging than shooting a regular arrow.

[dolby]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Originally posted by dolby:

cheesing tactices got nothing to do with it you can cheese with or without bleed or armor pen(insertwhatever) arrows ...and its about like i said breaking that combat loop with extra tactical options that in turn make the game more fun.

Adding anything that helps ranged/stealth be more powerful makes cheese easier. therefore there will be more cheese.

Now to your argument about braking the combat loop to make it more interesting: they shouldn't mess with the 5e rules more than they already have. Besides, adding special arrows that do bleed is not any more engaging than shooting a regular arrow.

you do know there are single target arrows in 5e right ?

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by dolby:

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Adding anything that helps ranged/stealth be more powerful makes cheese easier. therefore there will be more cheese.

Now to your argument about braking the combat loop to make it more interesting: they shouldn't mess with the 5e rules more than they already have. Besides, adding special arrows that do bleed is not any more engaging than shooting a regular arrow.

you do know there are single target arrows in 5e right ?

yes, but they are rare. And I have no problem with them being special items in limited quantities, but a limited quantities item (e.g., arrow of dragon slaying or similar) doesn't do much to fix your 'combat loop is boring' issue that you are proposing special arrows would fix.

[dolby]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Originally posted by dolby:

you do know there are single target arrows in 5e right ?

yes, but they are rare. And I have no problem with them being special items in limited quantities, but a limited quantities item (e.g., arrow of dragon slaying or similar) doesn't do much to fix your 'combat loop is boring' issue that you are proposing special arrows would fix.

yeah, well they do in my book and Solasta proved that. i guess we just gonna have to disagree about it.
Anyway, it's clearly they are adding arrows and doing soemthing with it cos we already have them... and you keep ignoring them for whatever reason.