Leveling up doesnt feel like DND

[Jzoo]

In other DND games before BG3, leveling up has always been a detailed process. one in which I often made mistakes and often felt overwhelmed and had to google or search what this was and how it worked before investing a "Feat". Unfortunately for BG3, these other games have left an impression of what feels "Right" during the level up process for a DND video game. And i just feel like the leveling up process in BG3 has been dumb'd down and overly simplified.

Anyone else feel this way?
Anyone want to tell me that its in early release and isnt complete? lol
Just worried. Got big hopes for this game and im looking forward to playing paladin.

[Jack Hawklight]

This game is based off the 5e rules. The D&D games you played in the past were off of earlier editions rules. That is why there is a difference. 5e has been streamlined both to get rid of bloat (that overwhelming feeling you were describing) and to make it easier for new players to get into.

[Wraith]

5e also doesn't really start to open up until you get to level 5 and things escalate.

Sadly it capped at 4 atm.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Wraith:

5e also doesn't really start to open up until you get to level 5 and things escalate.

Sadly it capped at 4 atm.

5e opens up?

Snide remarks aside, this is a very different edition of D&D. Don't expect power growth similar to past editions (or other CRPGs). Frankly, unless Larian homebrews the hell out the system, don't expect much period. 5e really feels like the lite version of D&D. Spellcasters have been nerfed to hell by the concentration mechanic (and most disables allow a save every round, instead of just one save for the duration). Instant death effects and negative levels were removed. Most of the CMs that existed since the 2e Fighter's Handbook were removed. Using just the core rules there's very little for the player to do other than the basic function of a class (e.g. a Paladin is a smite bot).

[Stardama69]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

5e opens up?

Snide remarks aside, this is a very different edition of D&D. Don't expect power growth similar to past editions (or other CRPGs). Frankly, unless Larian homebrews the hell out the system, don't expect much period.

Well tbh Larian is homebrewing the crap out of 5e. Unfortunately it's not always for the best (see barrelmancy, shove and disengage as bonus actions for everyone, high ground giving automatic advantage, free weapon switching...)

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Stardama69:

Well tbh Larian is homebrewing the crap out of 5e. Unfortunately it's not always for the best (see barrelmancy, shove and disengage as bonus actions for everyone, high ground giving automatic advantage, free weapon switching...)

The claims of barrelmancy are hyperbolic. I agree with high ground giving a bonus, it makes positioning more important (advantage might be too much, but the advantage/disadvantage mechanic is one of the things Larian should change). Drawing a weapon is a free action in 5e.

I do agree that shove and disengage should be regular actions.

[Alealexi]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Originally posted by Wraith:

5e also doesn't really start to open up until you get to level 5 and things escalate.

Sadly it capped at 4 atm.

5e opens up?

Snide remarks aside, this is a very different edition of D&D. Don't expect power growth similar to past editions (or other CRPGs). Frankly, unless Larian homebrews the hell out the system, don't expect much period. 5e really feels like the lite version of D&D. Spellcasters have been nerfed to hell by the concentration mechanic (and most disables allow a save every round, instead of just one save for the duration). Instant death effects and negative levels were removed. Most of the CMs that existed since the 2e Fighter's Handbook were removed. Using just the core rules there's very little for the player to do other than the basic function of a class (e.g. a Paladin is a smite bot).

I think the concentration mechanics were needed. Before that in 3.5 you basically did a prebuff fest like in WoW and steamrolled encounters. If you didn't do that then encounters were difficult to get through. In 5e you still have buffs but you can do without them and beat encounters. Also there were feats that were necessary for certain classes so even if you had 10,000 feats you really only choose the same handful of them for any class. 5e did away with most of that like the feat that rogues needed to take to use DEX as their ability modifier. As far as instant death effects they are still there.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Alealexi:

I think the concentration mechanics were needed. Before that in 3.5 you basically did a prebuff fest like in WoW and steamrolled encounters. If you didn't do that then encounters were difficult to get through. In 5e you still have buffs but you can do without them and beat encounters. Also there were feats that were necessary for certain classes so even if you had 10,000 feats you really only choose the same handful of them for any class. 5e did away with most of that like the feat that rogues needed to take to use DEX as their ability modifier. As far as instant death effects they are still there.

I don't pretend that 3.5 didn't have it's problems. The stacking rules were a large part of it, but instead of doing something sane, like you can only have the best bonus to AC, AB, etc. (instead of having morale, sacred, profane, etc. bonus types) they went too far with concentration, since it not only applies to buffs, but debuffs e.g. Haste is competing with Stinking Cloud for that concentration slot.

Where are the instant death effects? Finger of Death, Phantasmal Killer, Slay Living, Wail of the Banshee, they're either gone or deal damage instead.

[Coldhands]

Honestly, there's not much to leveling up in 5e. The classes are lists; what you get at each level is spelled out and it's generally not a choice.
And I sure don't miss 3e's leveling system, where you needed to make a max level character first, and then work backwards to make sure you had all your prerequisites planned out correctly.

It doesn't help that BG3 doesn't have all the classes and features implemented yet, but really, I don't think you're going to get your 'overwhelmed feeling' from leveling up in 5e.

[Kadh2000]

BG3 being based off of 5e D&D leveling is a lot simpler. 5e is like that

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Originally posted by Stardama69:

Well tbh Larian is homebrewing the crap out of 5e. Unfortunately it's not always for the best (see barrelmancy, shove and disengage as bonus actions for everyone, high ground giving automatic advantage, free weapon switching...)

The claims of barrelmancy are hyperbolic.

They are not. I can show you video evidence.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Alealexi:

Originally posted by wendigo211:

5e opens up?

Snide remarks aside, this is a very different edition of D&D. Don't expect power growth similar to past editions (or other CRPGs). Frankly, unless Larian homebrews the hell out the system, don't expect much period. 5e really feels like the lite version of D&D. Spellcasters have been nerfed to hell by the concentration mechanic (and most disables allow a save every round, instead of just one save for the duration). Instant death effects and negative levels were removed. Most of the CMs that existed since the 2e Fighter's Handbook were removed. Using just the core rules there's very little for the player to do other than the basic function of a class (e.g. a Paladin is a smite bot).

I think the concentration mechanics were needed. Before that in 3.5 you basically did a prebuff fest like in WoW and steamrolled encounters. If you didn't do that then encounters were difficult to get through. In 5e you still have buffs but you can do without them and beat encounters. Also there were feats that were necessary for certain classes so even if you had 10,000 feats you really only choose the same handful of them for any class. 5e did away with most of that like the feat that rogues needed to take to use DEX as their ability modifier. As far as instant death effects they are still there.

I agree, but I think they went too far. I think concentration should give you a number of spells you are able to concentrate on at one time equal to your spellcasting modifier, and then when you fail a Con save due to taking damage either one of those is broken at random or 'first cast first lost'.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

Originally posted by wendigo211:

The claims of barrelmancy are hyperbolic.

They are not. I can show you video evidence.

I've played through act 1 2.5 times. I even used all the tanks on the nautiloid to kill the Cambion and the Illithid (which was fun but not worth the time involved since you don't get anything for it). I know about the stashes of barrels wherever there are Zhentarim. If you're going to claim that those instances constitute too many barrels, you need to look again with fresh eyes.

[jjwareham]

Basically 5E is going to feel different because they've dumbed it down. Too much in my opinion, character creation has always been a big part of RPGs for me, pc or tabletop and 5E loses a lot of the variability that earlier editions had.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

They are not. I can show you video evidence.

I've played through act 1 2.5 times. I even used all the tanks on the nautiloid to kill the Cambion and the Illithid (which was fun but not worth the time involved since you don't get anything for it). I know about the stashes of barrels wherever there are Zhentarim. If you're going to claim that those instances constitute too many barrels, you need to look again with fresh eyes.

I've played far more than 2.5 times. I have over 230 hours in this game, and I've created detailed lists of where all the explosives are found, and there's a lot.

[id795078477]

I dislike concentration mechanics to be honest. I agree it would be much better to separate effects by categories and have them act like the deflection AC, i.e. only the best (or the latest, if best is hard to determine) effect of the given category applies.

Then you'll still be able to have strong casters, but the pre-buff galore would be largely diminished. And hey - I for example didn't hate that too much and so didn't others (though I won't claim anything about "the majority" as I simply don't have the numbers)

What I can't argue with is - since 5e they made PC basically a "guy/gal next door", i.e. pretty much a lowly, mostly insignificant existence - as compared to heroic and legendary 3.5 PC. I'm judging by video-games implementation here, not TT. And there's nothing wrong with the "mortal and powerless" PC - but it's just not what I am used to in DnD.

Earlier the PC could attain incredible powers, to name a few:
- Sheer level. Example - NWN1 HoU - with sane grinding on vampires in the Underdark you could get away with 28 level. 30 is you're really insisting. That's effectively a demigod
- Epic damage reduction. Yep, up to 9/-
- Epic class abilities, such as epic rage for barbarians or Red Dragon form for shapeshifter (that alone made me want to play the game like 5+ more playthroughs)
- Epic feats like devastating critical (who complains about casters having access to OHK stuff? that one doesn't even need a spell slot!)

and so much more. It was just more diverse, more complex and engaging experience. I compare 5e and 3.5e and it's like .. cruising on an auto-pilot at <1000m above the flat ground as compared to badass manual controls through the storms and mountains at 6k+ laughing at danger and flashing the twist in the air.