Kobolds as playable race!

[Kori]

They are smol, cute, and get all the advantages!

[KaffeeRausch]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Niob87:

-At the 100th Fan-Arts they are represented with ears, which you can no longer take seriously as a dungeon monster, should that be a * nice * subspecies?

The ears thing hearkens back to previous editions of the game, where Kobolds were described as being more canine looking than they were draconic. Some other fantasy settings (particularly those of Japan) continue to use this version of Kobolds over the years.

Two which come to mind are the game Ragnarok Online, and the anime Grimgar. Both of which depict Kobolds as being anthropomorphic wolves, rather than lizards.

https://youtu.be/FAuDMP3oI58

And in the anime, Hataage! Kemono Michi, the Kobolds have a more dog-like appearance to them.

https://youtu.be/iyDPuGs0VCI

And it all started with kobolds who were supposed to look like green-clad dwarfs with cilinder hats and a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow XD

The main thing is not these kobolds (Skaven) from WoW.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Foolswalkin:

Originally posted by Hades:

Nice

For the record i love Deekin Scalesinger he was so well done character in NWN Shadows of Undrentide, NWN Hordes of the Underdark


https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Deekin_Scalesinger

https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Deekin_Scalesinger

Hell ya Deekin!

All dialogue!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=emb_title&time_continue=60&v=er_LHFWleUg

For me Deekin is one of the best-made companions, at least in the first extension where he appears, but in the next extension where he appears which is overall better, he is well done too.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Dorok:

For me Deekin is one of the best-made companions, at least in the first extension where he appears, but in the next extension where he appears which is overall better, he is well done too.

If you pay the Knower of Names to learn Deekin's true name, you can use it's power to command Deekin to have more confidence in himself!

This confidence leads to him telling off Mephistopheles, when the arch devil tries to turn him against you!

Yeah cool, I never experimented the evil Deekin, but yeah help Deekin grow is one of the very well-done elements. For companion evolution, Bioware certainly made with some other companions deeper including for companion evolution and with more elements, but Deekin has also very special writing, which in my opinion was really hard to make. The pathetic half copy attempt in Pathfinder is a bit lame and shows the difficulty (not a Kobold, Goblin if I remind well, which was cool anyway, even if the writing a bit disappointing and the forced murderer before last parts was total lame design).

[CDI Mario]

the hell are you talking about those sentient dirt dragons are about as cute as a pile of wet cardboard. what makes you think they are cute? they live underground, dig with their hands, worship dragons, they cry and beg for mercy, they are weak and use traps because they cant do stuff in a smart or strong way. they are the equivalent of Rats. Hell, A single dire rat is stronger than a kobold. Hell, even their god was dumb enough to get tricked by the gnome god. How sad is that. the ugly dirt dragons god was tricked. the epitome of their race was bamboozled into being trapped. the only cute thing about them is they gather magic items that you will get after you do some pest controlling

[CDI Mario]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Shahadem:

You can play as a Kobold so long as you agree to being a Kobold. IE roleplaying as a character with an IQ max of 50 and a strength/con/wis/int max of 8.

I don't know where the heck you got the idea that Kobolds are dumb? They are fully aware of the fact they don't stand a chance in a fair fight with most enemies, so they set up elaborate traps and ambushes to take their enemies by surprise.

Have you heard the story of Tucker's Kobolds? In which a tribe of level 6 Kobolds manages to slaughter a full retinue of level 12 adventurers through the use of tactical planning and strategic brilliance?

that sounds like a bunch of cocky adventurers thought they were invincible and had bad luck. ever hear about the city guard who cleared an entire den of kobolds? no you havent because its common. if basic city guards can do pest control on them then obviously a group of adventurers dying to them is not the standard. hell sounds about as rare as finding a imprisoned genie who will grant wishes free of charge

[CDI Mario]

Originally posted by Dargsy:

I'd love it, but it likely wouldn't happen. It's hard to get a kobold PC to work when most would attack you on sight.

they did it with Undead in Divinity original sin 2 so its not impossible.

[CDI Mario]

Originally posted by Dargsy:

Originally posted by CDI Mario:

the hell are you talking about those sentient dirt dragons are about as cute as a pile of wet cardboard. what makes you think they are cute? they live underground, dig with their hands, worship dragons, they cry and beg for mercy, they are weak and use traps because they cant do stuff in a smart or strong way. they are the equivalent of Rats. Hell, A single dire rat is stronger than a kobold. Hell, even their god was dumb enough to get tricked by the gnome god. How sad is that. the ugly dirt dragons god was tricked. the epitome of their race was bamboozled into being trapped. the only cute thing about them is they gather magic items that you will get after you do some pest controlling

Yet there are people who find rats cute too. What's your point?

if you raise the rat sure. If you raise a kobold and think its cute thats kinda ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up dont you think? my point is a sentient race chooses to be gross and thus makes it not cute

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

I'm well aware of the story of Tucker's M***** F****** Kobolds. But that isn't a story of how powerful a kobold PC is relative to other races, specifically regarding pack tactics. All I have said is that pack tactics is not so amazing on a PC when it is held back some by sunlight sensitivity and the ease at which advantage is available to any other character. Kolbold PCs can be good, but they aren't these near godlike super OP characters that some in this forum (not necessarily you or even the person I had been replying to) seem to be making them out to be.

And the real moral of Tucker's Kobolds isn't that kobolds are little monsters that you have to be careful of. Rather it is no matter how strong your characters are, a smart DM can still lay them low.

Well, one benefit to being a PC character is having PC ability scores. Some races such as Kobolds and Goblins are depicted as being weak, trash mobs in the monster manual. The kind of enemies who actually need to attack as a group to even pose a challenge to a half decent adventurer.

But once you make them player characters, they become magnitudes more powerful than their standard counterparts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a feat you can obtain that removes sunlight sensitivity, at the cost of losing your Darkvision?

A trade off which isn't even that bad, when you think about how both Light and Dancing Lights are standard cantrips you can use for substitutes.

I believe that was a feat in prior editions, but to my knowledge it does not exist in 5e. If it did, then it would certainly be worth taking on a kobold pc. The question would be do you take ASAP (at level 4) or pump up your main stat first? I think the answer would depend on what class the PC kobold was with martial classes and definitely rogues taking the feat ASAP. Casters could delay or skip it entirely since they could just opt to mostly use spells that forced saves and thus are unaffected by sunlight sensitivity imposing disadvantage on attack rolls.

[CDI Mario]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by CDI Mario:

the hell are you talking about those sentient dirt dragons are about as cute as a pile of wet cardboard. what makes you think they are cute? they live underground, dig with their hands, worship dragons, they cry and beg for mercy, they are weak and use traps because they cant do stuff in a smart or strong way. they are the equivalent of Rats. Hell, A single dire rat is stronger than a kobold. Hell, even their god was dumb enough to get tricked by the gnome god. How sad is that. the ugly dirt dragons god was tricked. the epitome of their race was bamboozled into being trapped. the only cute thing about them is they gather magic items that you will get after you do some pest controlling

That same god who got tricked by a gnome, is also the one who created the magical prison the gods used to trap Cronus for the last several millennia. A Titan so absurdly powerful, that he has singlehandedly killed almost every god in the cosmos, while trapped in the illusion the gods placed him under.

In other words, Kurtulmak is the one responsible for keeping Cronus distracted, while the others gods tried to figure out a more permanent solution to dealing with him.

As for them being cute. Come on, just look at them! They're like tiny dragons that you can actually seduce, without worrying about getting your pelvis crushed into power, or having your lower body split like a log when you let them mount you!

-------------------------

Originally posted by CDI Mario:

that sounds like a bunch of cocky adventurers thought they were invincible and had bad luck. ever hear about the city guard who cleared an entire den of kobolds? no you havent because its common. if basic city guards can do pest control on them then obviously a group of adventurers dying to them is not the standard. hell sounds about as rare as finding a imprisoned genie who will grant wishes free of charge

Why would a city guard be found anywhere near a den of kobolds? They're supposed to be guarding the city. They're essentially medieval cops, not the armed forces. Also, cities often go to the trouble of hiring Kobolds as sewer maintenance workers, and miners.

Kobolds have a strong work ethic, and are genuinely happy performing manual labor, if that labor will benefit their tribe in some way. If you give them a regular supply of food, or treasure, they will be more than willing to offer you their skills.

Kobolds only act evil because they have little other options if they want to survive. The rest of the world views them as pests, and treats them as such. But if you give them a chance and treat them like actual people, they can be valuable members of society!

Lets start at the top
1 He did not Create the prison he came up with the idea. Its not even a full proof prison its a time sink to find something better.
2 A Psudodragon is Cute. It is literally a small dragon. Kobolds In official art work are not, Small dragons. They are skinny but oddly buff Half Dragons with none of the cool powers a half dragon gets. another bonus to a half dragon that kobolds dont have the luxury of having is they cant have SEX with weird people who want to ♥♥♥♥ a dirt dragon
3. a city guard would be near a kobold den because Kobolds are known for STEALING ♥♥♥♥, Especially from gnomes. they think that some random +1 sword might help thier god get out. 10/10 iq on there part right there.
4. Kobolds do have a strong work ethic. Perfect for slaves to an evil dragon they worship as demigods. Awe that "cute" kobold is offering our cleric to a green dragon, its so ADORABLE. Yes they will dig a sewer system but So will a good dwarf, Hell the dwarven one will likely last longer than the kobolds dirt tunnel. Another point, I wouldnt trust a kobold to dig a sewer system because chances are Gnomes Will be living in the city and giving them access to a underground system of tunels they can use to steal stuff From citizens is not something id want. At least with a dwarven tunnel i can be safe knowing a bunch of Dwarves aint going to crwal out of a manhole to curb stomp a gnome jewler
5. Kobolds act evil not because of necessity but because they are TOO DUMB to know how not to. Where a goblin is evil because their god essentially wills it and they typically fear their god (there is other goblin gods that are more peaceful and such those goblins are good) Kobolds dont have that excuse, They choose to be evil because they are dumb. like a wild animal they can be trained but they are still just a dirt dragon.

Edit: Actually im pretty sure Kobolds would just murder a gnome, Not just steal from him

[CDI Mario]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by CDI Mario:

5. Kobolds act evil not because of necessity but because they are TOO DUMB to know how not to. Where a goblin does it because their god essentially wills it (there is other goblin gods that are more peaceful and such those goblins are good) Kobolds dont have that excuse, They choose to be evil because they are dumb. like a wild animal they can be trained but they are still just a dirt dragon.

Kobolds are Lawful Evil, not Chaotic or Neutral.

That means they have a structured society. They know how to work together to achieve greater results they couldn't accomplish on their own. Before Glittergold decided to mess with their god, the Kobolds had succeeded in building themselves a legitimate empire, which used Gnomes as slaves.

Garl Glittergold collapsed a section of their tunnels on top of their capital city, literally crushing their empire.

And sure, a Dwarf might be able to build a better sewer system, with their fancy engineering degree. But will ANY Dwarf agree to actually live in them?

Kobolds wouldn't just build your sewers, they'd take up residency down there. They would exterminate pests and clear blockages without needing the city ordering them to do so, because the sewers are their home, and it would be a lot better for them to live down there if the place wasn't crawling with giant vermin, and flooded with raw sewage.

I also think you're dramatically underselling the craftsmanship of Kobold tunneling. Digging tunnel networks is one of the things they are best at. They would have to be, considering they're a race who suffers from Sunlight Sensitivity.

Kobolds prefer to live underground, which means they got really, really good at digging.

-----------------------

Also, just look at these guys. How can you not want to bang one?

https://youtu.be/xO-nXV1YnKk

Again, Why would you want a race of EXTREMELY racist monsters living UNDER YOUR CITY. You will obviously have craftsmen and such WHO WILL LIKELY BE GNOMES traveling through or living in said city. "we lose the odd Jewler or Artificer every week but hey, No need to go into the sewers to clear blockages" Not to mention if any Chromatic dragon finds them then Guess whos going to have a well fed army living UNDER YOUR CITY.

Why would you want to bang one. I can KINDA understand an actual dragon since they are known to polymorph but what kind of sad man chooses to ♥♥♥♥ a kobold. why are you aiming so low. In a world filled with many types of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ monsters, Why choose the dirt dragon. At least a Hag might give you something in exchange. Theres an ENTIRE RACE of Dragonoid humans called Dragonborn Who arnt Lanky and dont sleep in dirt and lay eggs. Theres Succubus, Nymphs, Any Flavor of Fey you want, Demons, Fish people, Abberations if you are into that. Why go for the Lowest type of dragonoid there is.

[Hobocop]

Kobolds aren't likely to just start murdering gnomes in populated areas if they have a cushy deal with local authorities. Too obvious, and they're well aware of potential retribution should that start happening.

[CDI Mario]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Kobolds aren't likely to just start murdering gnomes in populated areas if they have a cushy deal with local authorities. Too obvious, and they're well aware of potential retribution should that start happening.

whats stopping them from just digging deeper and setting up tons of traps, as they are known to do. They choose not to endanger their clan but theres a point in which if they view they have the upper hand then they will take advantage of it

[CDI Mario]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by CDI Mario:

Again, Why would you want a race of EXTREMELY racist monsters living UNDER YOUR CITY. You will obviously have craftsmen and such WHO WILL LIKELY BE GNOMES traveling through or living in said city. "we lose the odd Jewler or Artificer every week but hey, No need to go into the sewers to clear blockages" Not to mention if any Chromatic dragon finds them then Guess whos going to have a well fed army living UNDER YOUR CITY

Oh please, point to somebody in the player's handbook or monster manual who ISN'T racist in some fashion or another?

As for losing a jeweler or an artificer? Who cares about that?

Fashion accessories are not a vital service to keep the city's infrastructure running. The city will survive the loss of a few dozen precious rings and necklaces. It will fair much worse, if the toilets get clogged up, and the city starts to smell like ♥♥♥♥, only for the sewer workers to go missing on the job, when they get attacked by swarms of rats and oozes.

Let me paint a picture, The city is relatively big. Kobolds live in the sewers. A representative of the Merchants guild comes to town, hes a gnome, kinda cleshe but whatever. Kobolds strike, The Gnome survives. whats going to happen now. The city either has to remove the kobolds, Very hard to do in their own tunnels that are RIGHT UNDER YOUR CITY. Ignore the merchant guilds outrage which is basically suicide for a nonfarming town. You could lie and say you took care of it.

If we take wizards of the coasts take on racism then There is none in 5e racism is bad and doesn't belong in fantasy even tho it makes for some of the best storytelling

[Hobocop]

Why would they do that and risk giving the residents above an excuse to hire some adventurers to come evict them because they murdered or attempted to murder someone when they can continue flying under the radar at their leisure and grab any conveniently unattended items? It's more likely that said gnome merchant will happen to suffer a few more unfortunate thefts than suffer any serious harm.

[CDI Mario]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Why would they do that and risk giving the residents above an excuse to hire some adventurers to come evict them because they murdered or attempted to murder someone when they can continue flying under the radar at their leisure and grab any conveniently unattended items? It's more likely that said gnome merchant will happen to suffer a few more unfortunate thefts than suffer any serious harm.

Why wouldnt they? Theyve been doing it for a while now. One gnomes with jewels looks like the last Gnome jeweler they killed. This one looks like its got alot of good magical items to offer to our god. Worse case scenario, That gnome has alot of valuable stuff to offer to the Dragon ruling us. Green dragons love cities but still want a hoard. if a few kobolds need to die for some magical trinkets for its hoard so be it.