Why do people want barrelmancy removed?

[Cherokee Gage]

Especially considering it affects no one but the people who want to partake in it? I can understand the aspect of requesting the devs to balance the game so it didn't require barrelmancy as a "must do" option, but seriously, why get rid of something that literally does not affect you in any way whatsoever, unless you yourself choose to partake in it?

[Vyn]

Baldur's Gate 3 isn't D&D 5e. It is an ADAPTATION & INTERPRETATION.

EVERY battle can be won without the use of barrels, and/or item spam.

To continue to suggest you can't win a fight without the use/abuse of barrels is a simple fact that you - yourself - are unable to think your way through an encounter.

You can drag enemy encounters far from the starting point of that encounter.
You can bottleneck approaching enemies and force them to walk through fire.
You can ice the ground and bottleneck them to abuse prone targets.
You can force enemies to the edge of terrain and shove them off for ridiculous damage.
You can split and stealth your party and literally bombard them with arrows and spells while never letting them reach another party member.

The fact that YOU can't win a battle without barrels and continue to suggest they should be removed so that 'battles can be balanced without barrels" is the same as you saying that a battle is to hard for you and the game needs to be easier.... for you.

[mysticfall]

Origineel geplaatst door Elysion:

Who said anything about mandatory?

Just read a few pages in this thread and you will see. People argue that the game is balanced with an assumption that players will use "barrelmancy" so it's unreasonably difficult to play without exploiting it.

And also, the same people are arguing that if there is such an exploit pretty much everyone will use it.

If you don't agree with them then it's fine. But now you know why we think such arguments are quite overblown and silly.

[SEnergy]

Origineel geplaatst door mysticfall:

Origineel geplaatst door SEnergy:

stacking 30 barrels is not "using an intended mechanic"... stacking nothing but barrels in your inventory so you can one-shot the boss without needing to strategically think and properly fight is NOT "using an intended mechanic", but ABUSING a mechanic

It's obvious that you haven't actually played DOS2, because you can't shove more than a couple of them in your inventory in DOS2 and that's when you put enough points to the strength attribute.

As such, moving and stacking 30 barrels require significant amount of effort, so most just don't play it that way because it's an extremely tedious thing to do.

yeah, I haven't played DOS2, this forum is about BG3... your second part of the reply just agreed with my statement that placing 30 barrels around a boss to one shot it is an abuse, not an intended use of mechanic... so, I don't understand what's the point of your reply?

[mysticfall]

Origineel geplaatst door SEnergy:

yeah, I haven't played DOS2, this forum is about BG3... your second part of the reply just agreed with my statement that placing 30 barrels around a boss to one shot it is an abuse, not an intended use of mechanic... so, I don't understand what's the point of your reply?

The point is, if such an exploit is only practicised by a handful of people who do it for memes and lols, it wouldn't affect ordinary players like many of those anti-barrelmancy people seem to believe.

And if it doesn't affect ordinary players much but allow some people to play it the way they find to be fun, why should we deprive them of a chance to enjoy it as they like?

And a part of the reason why DOS2 was so successful is because the game allowed players to be creative, and it doesn't mean using barrels all the time.

They have freedom to play it in so many different ways and it doesn't force you to play it the way they do. So there's no reason why you should enforce your way of playing the game to others either.

[Boink]

Btw.

Since everyone is ignoring *why* barrelmancy is in game atm (literally: engine stress testing), here's the 5E rules on it:

Spirits, cask 	18 lb.
Spirits, hogshead 	750 lb.
Spirits, keg 	90 lb.
Spirits, barrel 	375 lb.

https://olddungeonmaster.com/2016/12/07/dd-5e-item-weights/

Currently in-game they weigh 5 or 10. The above is written by Americans, who wouldn't know the side of a barn on actual sizes / weights of objects, and when they say "keg" they mean barrel and when they say barrel they mean "one of those giant wine barrels you find in France".

SRD 1.5 page 69

Barrel   2  gp   70  lb. 

Barrel   40  gallons  liquid,  4  cubic  feet  solid 

Gallon > Kilogram: 129.024, add the barrel weight (31.75146kg) = 160 kg or 352lb

SRD 1.5 page 79

 Carrying  Capacity.  Your  carrying  capacity  is  your Strength  score  multiplied  by  15.  This  is  the  weight (in  pounds)  that  you  can  carry,  which  is  high  enough that  most  characters  don’t  usually  have  to  worry about  it. 

Str 17 x 15 = 255 = 115.6660kg

Ergo, if you are one of the strongest humanoids in the Forgotten Realms, according to the rules, you cannot pick up a full barrel without becoming encumbered.

For reference (reality):

A standard-size barrel filled with the most common oils (petroleum oil, crude oil or diesel fuel oils) weighs between 275 and 300 pounds. However, the weight of a barrel of oil varies based on the type of oil in the barrel and the size of the barrel.

https://www.reference.com/science/much-barrel-oil-weigh-b29eeb18d34510ef


~


Just slap encumberance rules into the engine, barrelmancy is solved.



And yes, 352lb is too much for a fantasy barrel of oil, they'll be smaller than modern ones. 250 is about right.


And yes: literally just calc'd this all out for you to stop your arguments. The rules exist, Larian can use them or not (make encumberance a toggle on game start), EVERYONE IS NOW HAPPY.

See you in 1.0.

[SEnergy]

Origineel geplaatst door Elysion:

Origineel geplaatst door SEnergy:

there's absolutely no chance or reason why Larian would make stacking 10+ barrels into your inventory mandatory in order to finish the game... just... don't you hear yourself, and how stupid that actually sounds?

Who said anything about mandatory? I dont even use barrels apart from the tutorial where i wanted to see if i could kill everything in the helm room (in the end sneak archery was easier to pull off).
That doesnt change the general larianized enviornmental combat system needs to be toned down. Im not opposed to explosive barrels existing, but they should be far more limited and difficult to use than they currently are. Moving them during combat should cost an action, carrying even one should require a very strong character, and soforth.

stacking 30 barrels is not "using an intended mechanic"

If you are allowed to stack 30 barrels then either the mechanic is intended or it needs to be nerfed so that it falls in line with what is intended. The developers communicate what is an intended mechanic by what you can do in the game. If you can do it, it is assumed to be intended or a bug.

stacking nothing but barrels in your inventory so you can one-shot the boss without needing to strategically think and properly fight is NOT "using an intended mechanic", but ABUSING a mechanic

So why are you defending it?

alright, I'll try it again

you can not put more than few barrels in your inventory - depending on the STR of the character
you CAN STACK (around you, or an NPC, on the map, on the ground) as many barrels as you want - limiting this would be just stupid, wouldn't it? how would you even limit this? "oh no, the barrel magic has detected that there are 3 more barrels close to eachother, so the magic will not let you place more" ??? if they'd limit how many barrels there are in the world, people would still abuse it by getting every barrel they find, and stack them in the camp, so they can retrieve them easily when needed...

in order to do this (stack a lot of barrels to one-shot a boss), you need to do multiple trips, a trip consists of:
- finding barrels
- putting them into inventory
- placing them on the ground
- finding barrels
- ...

and thus stacking 30 barrels is an abuse of a mechanic, and you need to jump hoops and spend a lot of time actually preparing for it, and thus is not an intended mechanic, and not a lot of people do it, because other people will rather spend the time actually fighting the boss instead of trying to abuse their way around it

people that do this spend hours preparing for it, they don't do it in 5 minutes like you seem to think

they do not run around with 30 barrels in their inventory like you seem to think

you need to WANT to use barrelmancy, it's not something a lot of people do, it's not something that's as common as you think - now tell me, by your logic, how in the hell would Larian interpret this as something people like to do (spend hours finding the barrels and stacking them on one place/camp) and they should use this as a baseline for balance? what you claim makes NO SENSE

[mysticfall]

Origineel geplaatst door Boink:

Just slap encumberance rules into the engine, barrelmancy is solved.

I do agree that an ordinary character shouldn't carry a barrel without being encumbered.

And it's most likely that BG3 will soon enforce the rule since it already displays the item weight and DOS2 worked that way too.

So, the so called "barrelmancy" was not that easy nor prevalent in DOS2 due to such restrictions, and so it will be like that in BG3 too once it completes missing mechanics before its official release.

[Boink]

Origineel geplaatst door SEnergy:

you can not put more than few barrels in your inventory - depending on the STR of the character

You're not helping yourself.

In-game barrels currently weigh 5/10 lb depending.


You *can* literally carry >10 of them, it's currently possible.

[SEnergy]

Origineel geplaatst door mysticfall:

...

They have freedom to play it in so many different ways and it doesn't force you to play it the way they do. So there's no reason why you should enforce your way of playing the game to others either.

I am not? I am "pro-barrelmancy" if you want to call it like that... I finished the act without the need to use any cheesy tactics, I don't remember using any barrels at all.. I might have use few when I saw the opportunity when the enemy was near some, but I am an advocate of the fact that the game is balanced around the normal, tactical gameplay, not barrel abuse, and the barrels should stay in the game for people that do want to use them for ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles

I find people that cry that they HAVE to use barrelmancy because they can't win the fights ridiculous and bad at the game

[mysticfall]

Origineel geplaatst door pandariuskairos:

Also, oil isn't explosive.

People can't carry 20 swords and 5 armor pieces in real life either.

[Boink]

Origineel geplaatst door mysticfall:

Origineel geplaatst door Boink:

Just slap encumberance rules into the engine, barrelmancy is solved.

I do agree that an ordinary character shouldn't carry a barrel without being encumbered.

And it's most likely that BG3 will soon enforce the rule since it already displays the item weight and DOS2 worked that way too.

So, the so called "barrelmancy" was not that easy nor prevalent in DOS2 due to such restrictions, and so it will be like that in BG3 too once it completes missing mechanics before its official release.

Larian want hard and dirty FPS stress data from a huge variety of PC system specs. QA fails if you don't have it.

There is no better way to do this than giving players the ability to blow ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ up and crash the game.


One of the most stupid D:OS2 youtube videos about using Death Fog barrels to kill the entire of Arx is some fool going "I've no idea why FPS is tanking here".

[Lλmbdλ]

1. Red barrel who explode in video game ... in 2020
2. I feel it doesn't fit with the world of Faerun where the iron crisis happens

It is fun but I prefer less explosives, even if I enjoyed it

[SEnergy]

Origineel geplaatst door pandariuskairos:

Origineel geplaatst door SEnergy:

the game is balanced around the normal, tactical gameplay,

It isn't.

you're just bad, that's all, the game is balanced

[mysticfall]

Origineel geplaatst door SEnergy:

I am not? I am "pro-barrelmancy" if you want to call it like that... I finished the act without the need to use any cheesy tactics, I don't remember using any barrels at all.. I might have use few when I saw the opportunity when the enemy was near some, but I am an advocate of the fact that the game is balanced around the normal, tactical gameplay, not barrel abuse, and the barrels should stay in the game for people that do want to use them for ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles

I find people that cry that they HAVE to use barrelmancy because they can't win the fights ridiculous and bad at the game

I was only replying to the part where you said that stacking the barrel was abusing the mechanic.

But yeah, probably I should have replied to other people who actually claim things like how the game was balanced around the barrelmancy and such stuffs instead.

[lindad7999]

Origineel geplaatst door 3.PzD Gage:

Origineel geplaatst door pandariuskairos:

That's NOT "balance".

Again, I didn't disagree with reducing the amount or making changes that don't require its use, but outrightly preventing someone from doing something that literally affects no one but the person doing it, is not a balance issue. You can simply choose to not do it

Just a Zero level troll account defending the ridiculous barrelmancy hold over from D:OS2 that doesn't fit in 5E D&D.