Why do people want barrelmancy removed?

[Cherokee Gage]

Especially considering it affects no one but the people who want to partake in it? I can understand the aspect of requesting the devs to balance the game so it didn't require barrelmancy as a "must do" option, but seriously, why get rid of something that literally does not affect you in any way whatsoever, unless you yourself choose to partake in it?

[wildnike]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von pandariuskairos:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von wildnike:

aspect of Divinity games.

That's the other problem, but you are correct.

This isn't a Divinity game, thus why we keep bringing it up.

It's Baldur's Gate. It's D&D 5e.

That kind of crap doesn't belong here.

But it's also Divinity, which is where the conundrum wedges itself.

The combat has a tactical and environmental-based focus around movement and area-effecting mechanics. 5e's rules and traits have been tweaked to support this kind of manipulation of the battle zone and movement be done en masse. This has been done because Larian is very good at making these kinds of games, but 5e's mechanics, on their own, don't work for their style. Thus we have arrived at a marriage which is very much YMMV on enjoyment.

Personally I think we're too early to call anything. EA is predicted to be around a year, likely a bit more. We have a long way to go, but ultimately how this fusion of style and rules will work out isn't defined yet.

[Sir_Baldur]

In D&D - when people want to blow things up properly: they use a fireball.

[wildnike]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von pandariuskairos:

See the problem? People got BG3 on the hope that it would be a D&D 5e experience, and Larian looks like they're just turning it into DOS3. It's not just the engine - that's fine - it's the way they fundamentally design games, with stupid meme combat and splosions everywhere you look. It's ridiculous, and those of us that wanted a better game will not shut up about it until Larian relents, and at the very least turns barrelmancy into an option we can turn off in the menu.

This will likely never happen. Larian has a set path with how they're doing things, which is a hybrid of their own system and 5e's tweaked system. This will be improved over time, but at the core will remain true to what they want.

The easiest option to break away from this will likely come through mods. Nexus already has a "more like 5e" mod. I can't imagine a "make all barrels weigh 10x more" or "remove all/half barrels" mod isn't in the works.

[dolby]

From this thread on? so you can ♥♥♥♥♥ about it!
Before it was cos no one cares if you do barrelmancy like that. The problem is on the fly throwing of barrels and exploding stuff that needed fixing... coupled with elemental arrows and others flasks and grenades it's to much...

[Auburn2]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von pandariuskairos:

Let me be very specific:

I want the game balanced as if excessive barrels and DANGER GROUND didn't exist everywhere to make ever overtuned encounter easier.

If they want to add these things afterwards as an optional means of "skipping" fights, that's fine, but every encounter needs to be balanced on the premise that these things aren't in every single fight FIRST.

It seems pretty balanced already to me and I guess if it is too hard for you there will be an easy difficulty I am sure.

[mysticfall]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Phinx:

Actually Barrelmancy was very well known in DOS 1/2. And it's really easy to use...

There are people who've done full playthroughs with purely barrelmancy.

Yeah, but how many? Are you claiming that most people who played DOS2 relied on stacking and blowing up barrels to win every encounter, because the game is all about barrels and balanced around such cheesy tactics?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Phinx:

2nd of all. Tactitian doesn't mean much. Because there are so many broken builds & exploits that can solo tactician without lone wolf.

Ok, if you say so. But then how come DOS2 became so well received and sold so many copies if it was totally broken like that?

And you are missing the point since I didn't mentioned that to boast my skills or anything, but to refute those people who claim it's unreasonably difficult to beat the game without so called "barrelmancy" which is plainly not true.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Phinx:

DOS2 went backwards in creativity. Due to the armor/shield system.

Backward from what? BG1 and BG2 whose combat was just perfect?

I'm not defending its dual armor system, but criticising this or that mechanic is not the same thing as calling it a broken game.

[Arlen]

bottom line up front - a 50 gallon barrel of fluid - weighs more then your average person can move, let alone pick up. There is no way Asterion or Gale should be able to move a barrel, let alone carry multiple barrels. Your fighter starts with 16 str, and a carry capacity of 80, I can suspend my belief and accept that he/she/it can carry 1 barrel, if encumbured. I cannot suspend belief that Gale, with a str of 9, can move a barrel, let alone carry one unencumbered. Players can play the game however they want, but barrelmancy absolutely is an exploit, it breaks the chain of reason. As for fire arrows, acid arrows - these should be rare items, as they are in 5E. Hell +1 arrows are hard to come by in 5E, let alone elemental arrows.

[Echo]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von billybobtexan1000:

bottom line up front - a 50 gallon barrel of fluid - weighs more then your average person can move, let alone pick up. There is no way Asterion or Gale should be able to move a barrel, let alone carry multiple barrels. Your fighter starts with 16 str, and a carry capacity of 80, I can suspend my belief and accept that he/she/it can carry 1 barrel, if encumbured. I cannot suspend belief that Gale, with a str of 9, can move a barrel, let alone carry one unencumbered. Players can play the game however they want, but barrelmancy absolutely is an exploit, it breaks the chain of reason. As for fire arrows, acid arrows - these should be rare items, as they are in 5E. Hell +1 arrows are hard to come by in 5E, let alone elemental arrows.

This is pretty much my take as well. It leaves the barrels that are pre-placed in encounters and all the spice they add but removes it as a viable alternative to casting magic. It also stops you from trivialising all the other rules and red dragons etc.

I'll bet you they don't go that way though so you might as well mod your character to be an Apeling and call him Donkey Kong. Or, you can just personally choose to walk past each barrel and pretend they aren't there. It's not like they're actually compulsory.

[Arlen]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Echoic:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von billybobtexan1000:

bottom line up front - a 50 gallon barrel of fluid - weighs more then your average person can move, let alone pick up. There is no way Asterion or Gale should be able to move a barrel, let alone carry multiple barrels. Your fighter starts with 16 str, and a carry capacity of 80, I can suspend my belief and accept that he/she/it can carry 1 barrel, if encumbured. I cannot suspend belief that Gale, with a str of 9, can move a barrel, let alone carry one unencumbered. Players can play the game however they want, but barrelmancy absolutely is an exploit, it breaks the chain of reason. As for fire arrows, acid arrows - these should be rare items, as they are in 5E. Hell +1 arrows are hard to come by in 5E, let alone elemental arrows.

This is pretty much my take as well. It leaves the barrels that are pre-placed in encounters and all the spice they add but removes it as a viable alternative to casting magic.

I'll bet you they don't go that way though so you might as well mod your character to be an Apeling and call him Donkey Kong or you can just personally choose to walk past each barrel and pretend they aren't there. It's not like they're actually compulsory.

Ignoring the barrels would be fine, if the AI did the same. I would also point out that the "you can ignore the barrels, as what others do in THEIR game doesn't effect you" is a poor argument. Everything is being analyzed by Larian right now, whether we report it or not, they are running analytics and metrics, determining what the majority of players are doing which will determine the end product for everyone.

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

Want the TL;DR of this entire post, OP just uses the Answer function to confirm their own bias in favor of Barrelmancy.

The OP has not interest in the game being balanced based around 5e to which you the player are restricted too, and instead opts for. Everyone aught to Mix/Max in order to play the game without Barrelmancy, given the enemies are balanced around Barrelmancy and not around the 5e counterparts.

Am I biased? Honestly, I don't really care one way or another. I don't like it, but if it's in, it's not a deal breaker obviously, gave the EA a good review and all that.

[Echo]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von billybobtexan1000:

...I would also point out that the "you can ignore the barrels, as what others do in THEIR game doesn't effect you" is a poor argument.

Okay, how is that a poor argument? This is probably where the devs are coming from, anyway. Not that I can speak for them.

[Hobocop]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von billybobtexan1000:

Ignoring the barrels would be fine, if the AI did the same.

If there's a barrel already there, and they can derive some advantage from it in a combat situation, why would that be a problem?

Further, the AI isn't the one scouring every corner of the map stockpiling barrels for memes.

[DeadFishGod]

After reading far more comments than I care to admit to...
It seems to come down to "But.. But... Balance!" and "Its not something you have to take advantage, NPCs don't do barelmancy... so I don't get why it bothers you so much"
Oh.. and petty insults
Anyway..
My two cents.. it's not actually a 'balance issue' if your are fighting NPCs.. it's a 'game play' issue... balance issues are a PvP or multi player thing... so if you are going to do multiplayer.. don't play with people who want to do this stuff and let the rest of us either have fun with the mechanics... even if it means some people are going to pull B.S. every now and then probably on their own personal game because I know I have better things to than wait for someone to set up something like that and let the low hanging fruits who do game exploit videos have no life outside of youtube and twitch...

[Vyn]

What most of this misunderstanding seems to stem from is a select few hoisting the disillusion that this is D&D 5e. It is not, it has been clearly stated this is Larians interpretation and adaptation to the 5e ruleset. The sooner this minority comes to terms with that, the sooner they can make a decision to enjoy the game for what it is, or not.

Larian will add options, as they always do, to somewhat tailor the game to a more individualized playstyle. The modding community will do the rest, as they always do.

Larian Studios doesn't need to, and shouldn't, give a moments thought to this childish attempt to "pressure them enough" into changing their creative take on what BG3 should be.

These redundant and factually incorrect complaints about "what the game should be" are being made by 1/10th of 1% of the player base so far, albeit an annoying loud 1/10th of 1%, and should be virtually ignored as such.

This is not a continuation of BG1/2. This is not a continuation of DOS1/2. This is not D&D 5e.
This is a fantasy game, set in the 15th century of the DR, and while in the same universe as Baldur's Gate 1/2(about a century after Shadows of Amn) it is a new creative take on several aspects of D&D.

This can not be made any more clear.

[squallleonheart21]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von pandariuskairos:

I AM actually capable of ignoring barrels if I choose to (in fact, so far, I typically only make use of the first barrel in the Dank Crypt to kill the looters since I tend to play solo and it's almost impossible to kill them otherwise).

However, the issue is that the high frequency of non-sensical explosive barrels (where did they all come from anyway? why are they just lying around in crypts and caves? why do npc's ignore them? why does 'oil' explode anyway, when it should be merely flammable?) requires Larian to balance the encounters around this arcade-like mechanic.

Remove the barrels (and other DANGER GROUND effects, like elemental arrows and flasks), balance the game around a 4-man party, and THEN start adding this stuff back as you see fit.

I actually don't care that this cheat code EXISTS, I care that the game is balanced with it in mind, which prevents me from playing the game without it.

1. There's a barrel in the crypt because the bandits brought it with them, it's a "Firewine Barrel"
It's literally a barrel of wine, it's not "oil", they are bandits, they like to drink booze, they brought booze with them...

Same reason that you don't have barrels in the owlbear cave, animals don't hoard booze..

2. There're also "Smoke powder" barrels, that's pretty much gunpowder/blackpowder which explode, as they should.

3. The game is 100% balanced without barrels, Most people here probably passed the entire EA without a single exploit