Mephistopheles vs Asmodeus Tieflings

[Knightmage Bael]

So far exactly the same, there's nothing differentiating them other than skin color. Which is fine.

Though, Zariel gets +1 STR, +2 CHA, the other two get +1 INT, +2 CHA, Maybe change Mephistopheles Tieflings should have +1 dex, +2 CHA or something instead?

Paladins will use CHA+STR
Bards use CHA
Clerics use WIS
Sorcerer use CHA

I don't think Paladins or Clerics would work well story wise haha, but maybe instead of the +1 INT , one of the two remaining tiefling subraces should use DEX or CON. At least for the sake of increased purpose other than saying "I want a purple Tiefling".

I actually think Sorcerer could go really well. CON + CHA sounds like a lot of fun.

[Haven]

Repelling blast is not necessary, but does have really good utility--especially with how effective shoving-type moves are in BG3. If you want more utility then you can get something else like the speak with animals invocation. And yes, it is a common sentiment that it kinda feels bad that agonizing blast is so good that it just feels bad to not pick it. I'm trying to make a sorlock for Adventurer's League and it's the hardest thing ever to not take it xD

[Knightmage Bael]

Wizards use wisdom tho right? Tieflings get a CHA racial bonus.

Which would also make them pretty good bards, too.

Also, true strike is useless? It doesn't sound useless. I guess its functionally irrelevant then? I was hoping that with hunter's mark and true strike you'd be able to do massive damage every turn. Guess not. Oh well, you learn some I guess.

I picked blade ward, which I never use because I was hoping it would reduce the damage I take, which would be useful for front lining as a squishy. They sound good in theory. Whether they're actually useful in game is a whole other matter (but still relevant)

I said tieflings don't feel very useful because all the classes that utilize charisma as their main damage source aren't in the game - with the exception of the warlock. I realize they are/will be useful later.

[Random Hero]

Warlock without eldricht blast is like wizard without spells above level 1.

[Random Hero]

Archmage_Bael eredeti hozzászólása:

Wizards use wisdom tho right? Tieflings get a CHA racial bonus.

Which would also make them pretty good bards, too.

Also, true strike is useless? It doesn't sound useless. I guess its functionally irrelevant then? I was hoping that with hunter's mark and true strike you'd be able to do massive damage every turn. Guess not. Oh well, you learn some I guess.

I picked blade ward, which I never use because I was hoping it would reduce the damage I take, which would be useful for front lining as a squishy. They sound good in theory. Whether they're actually useful in game is a whole other matter (but still relevant)

I said tieflings don't feel very useful because all the classes that utilize charisma as their main damage source aren't in the game - with the exception of the warlock. I realize they are/will be useful later.

Wizards use int.

Tieflings are inferior to half-elves in DnD5e for basically any choice of class. But not by a large margin.

[Knightmage Bael]

Random Hero eredeti hozzászólása:

Wizards use int.

Tieflings are inferior to half-elves in DnD5e for basically any choice of class. But not by a large margin.

Ah right, hederp.

Regardless your point about Tieflings is painfully true. Larian has a chance to change that though. It'd be nice to give them a little bit of a buff. Not anything major, mind, just enough to level them out and make them more appealing for people who want to min/max.

[Soft Lockpick]

Archmage_Bael eredeti hozzászólása:

Random Hero eredeti hozzászólása:

Wizards use int.

Tieflings are inferior to half-elves in DnD5e for basically any choice of class. But not by a large margin.

Ah right, hederp.

Regardless your point about Tieflings is painfully true. Larian has a chance to change that though. It'd be nice to give them a little bit of a buff. Not anything major, mind, just enough to level them out and make them more appealing for people who want to min/max.

Look, if we're talking about racial imbalance Tieflings are in need of nothing.

Take the worst race, humans, and fix that first. But really all races are perfectly playable. Make a tiefling. You give up a small amount of stats and proficiency/speed from half elf for fire resist. Is Half Elf better? Yes. But the margin is basically minor.

Make that same comparison to a human and the story changes drastically. If someone plays a human they either have some RP reason (which is odd since Human is the most boring race from an RP perspective) or they are just bad at math.

[zenebatos1]

Blade ward might not be "useless" but its terrible, cause it requires an action to cast.

And thats an action that you are not using to cast a spell that deals damage or and action not spent attacking.

True strike is...

Even tho Larian reworked it a bit, it is still a terrible spell, You use your Action (so not attacking this turn) to gain an advantage on the NEXT turn, and it is a concentration to maintain the spell...

So i you plan on doing anything with it, but gets Hit before the next turn, you have chances to loose the concentration and thus the spell, and you've wasted a whole turn doing squat for MAYBE hitting on the next turn.

It is mecanicly better to just attack this turn, and then attack again the next turn.

If True strike would be a Bonus Action, that might fix it.

And yes for now, Tiefflin are not the most Optimal choice, since the only current class that uses CHA as a spellcasting ability is the Warlock(BArds, paladins and Sorcerors not been available for now)

But the issue is not that the Tiefflings are weaker, its that the High elves are too good( getting a bunch of weapons Proficiencies regardless of the class, immune to sleep spells and resisting to Charms, and a free cantrip)

Now on the other hand, Tiefflings gets resistance to one of the most common type of dmg (Fire), Darkvision, and extra Spell-like abilities (wich are not correctly implemented for now)

[Soft Lockpick]

zenebatos1 eredeti hozzászólása:

Blade ward might not be "useless" but its terrible, cause it requires an action to cast.

And thats an action that you are not using to cast a spell that deals damage or and action not spent attacking.

True strike is...

Even tho Larian reworked it a bit, it is still a terrible spell, You use your Action (so not attacking this turn) to gain an advantage on the NEXT turn, and it is a concentration to maintain the spell...

So i you plan on doing anything with it, but gets Hit before the next turn, you have chances to loose the concentration and thus the spell, and you've wasted a whole turn doing squat for MAYBE hitting on the next turn.

It is mecanicly better to just attack this turn, and then attack again the next turn.

If True strike would be a Bonus Action, that might fix it.

And yes for now, Tiefflin are not the most Optimal choice, since the only current class that uses CHA as a spellcasting ability is the Warlock(BArds, paladins and Sorcerors not been available for now)

But the issue is not that the Tiefflings are weaker, its that the High elves are too good( getting a bunch of weapons Proficiencies regardless of the class, immune to sleep spells and resisting to Charms, and a free cantrip)

Now on the other hand, Tiefflings gets resistance to one of the most common type of dmg (Fire), Darkvision, and extra Spell-like abilities (wich are not correctly implemented for now)

True strike would have value if you intend to scorching ray or have eldritch blast at high enough level to get multiple hits. It actually does have a niche.

Blade ward is almost always garbage. There are SOME times where it might have value. If you know you are the one the AI will target, and the odds of getting hit are high. And for some reason you need to tank hits. But it really is garbage.

The two races you mention are fine. If you want to complain about racial weakness go fix human before bothering with any others. If you have one race in the dumpster because it literally is best at absolutely nothing fixing imbalances between 1st and 2nd or 3rd place is kind of dumb.

[Knightmage Bael]

Well BG3 right now is in a state of "lol go for wizard"

On that mentality, you could pick a bunch of fighters that use shields, with that one proficiency that gives opponents a disadvantage to attack anyone next to a shielded ally.

Then have that stack. So two fighters and a cleric, all with shields, by the wizard, and then the enemy would basically never hit. There needs to be some kind of adaptation to fix the "tower defense-esque" habits.

More to the point about the elves though, I kind of agree, but they don't really need much sleep even in normal D&D, so that makes sense. Good eyes? That's always been a feature of elves. So you can't really take away dark vision either. Though proficiencies could be reworked. Naturally better with bows and wands.

Its interesting your counter point to Tieflings not being good enough is elves being TOO good.

Humans with +1 in everything seem really good though. You can use that to hit the +2 bonuses in a lot of minor stats in classes that still benefit, but not use it.

Shield Dwarves get +2 CON & STR which is nuts though.

I wish there could be some rings in the early access that could give +1 to a stat of some kind.

[Soft Lockpick]

Archmage_Bael eredeti hozzászólása:

Humans with +1 in everything seem really good though. You can use that to hit the +2 bonuses in a lot of minor stats in classes that still benefit, but not use it.

Default Human is, mechanically, the hands down worst race in the game right now. To think this is strong just shows a lack of understanding of the way this game is played.

And that's fine. It's not a knock on you. But instead of arguing about big changes to a system you clearly do not understand (changing the tiefling racials) maybe try the build you were given to make the class and race combination you wanted and see how it feels.

[Kantz]

As a Tiefling/ Half-Elf warlock take the medium armor & shield feat (w.+1 dex) at lv.4

"Moderately Armored – Using the Moderately Armored Feat, players will have proficiency with Medium Armor and Shields. Their Strength or Dexterity score will also increase by 1, to a maximum of 20."

Some races gives free medium armor proficiency. Why "muscle wizards" are dwarf/ Gith ..

[jffrspuk]

Archmage_Bael eredeti hozzászólása:

So far exactly the same, there's nothing differentiating them other than skin color. Which is fine.

Though, Zariel gets +1 STR, +2 CHA, the other two get +1 INT, +2 CHA, Maybe change Mephistopheles Tieflings should have +1 dex, +2 CHA or something instead?

Paladins will use CHA+STR
Bards use CHA
Clerics use WIS
Sorcerer use CHA

I don't think Paladins or Clerics would work well story wise haha, but maybe instead of the +1 INT , one of the two remaining tiefling subraces should use DEX or CON. At least for the sake of increased purpose other than saying "I want a purple Tiefling".

I actually think Sorcerer could go really well. CON + CHA sounds like a lot of fun.

Whilst I don't know if they are going to make it into the final cut there is already two Tiefling subraces that give the +1 in Dex.

Those two and the three int based variants are flavoured differently depending on what you want to do with the character. For the other stat blocks there is one for each stat that is not Charisma due to Charisma always has +2..

[Knightmage Bael]

Soft Lockpick eredeti hozzászólása:

Archmage_Bael eredeti hozzászólása:

Humans with +1 in everything seem really good though. You can use that to hit the +2 bonuses in a lot of minor stats in classes that still benefit, but not use it.

Default Human is, mechanically, the hands down worst race in the game right now. To think this is strong just shows a lack of understanding of the way this game is played.

And that's fine. It's not a knock on you. But instead of arguing about big changes to a system you clearly do not understand (changing the tiefling racials) maybe try the build you were given to make the class and race combination you wanted and see how it feels.

Well if you present me with a race in DnD that gets +1 in everything I'm gonna want to exploit that lol.

So then, how is that mechanically bad? Usually I just try to see the things I need the most, and get a +2 or +3 in 2 or 3 of the stats, and leave the rest with neutral modifiers, as a way to min/max my starting stats. Its done pretty well for me so far going this route. I don't have to resort to barrelmancy to save my hide :P

@jffrspuke - yeah. I know Tieflings all have a native +2 to charisma, which is interesting considering in universe people seem to be discriminatory to tieflings because of their relationship with hell, and what's happened in the past.

Is there something particularly charismatic about them? XD

[Soft Lockpick]

Archmage_Bael eredeti hozzászólása:

Soft Lockpick eredeti hozzászólása:

Default Human is, mechanically, the hands down worst race in the game right now. To think this is strong just shows a lack of understanding of the way this game is played.

And that's fine. It's not a knock on you. But instead of arguing about big changes to a system you clearly do not understand (changing the tiefling racials) maybe try the build you were given to make the class and race combination you wanted and see how it feels.

Well if you present me with a race in DnD that gets +1 in everything I'm gonna want to exploit that lol.

So then, how is that mechanically bad? Usually I just try to see the things I need the most, and get a +2 or +3 in 2 or 3 of the stats, and leave the rest with neutral modifiers, as a way to min/max my starting stats. Its done pretty well for me so far going this route. I don't have to resort to barrelmancy to save my hide :P

There's nothing to exploit. 6 "half of a bonus" points are actually extremely low value. It is a noob trap. Think about it. Every other race gets +2 in 1 and +1 in another or +1 in 2 others plus racial features.

The 2 or 3 +1s human offers over a half elf or something will be in dump stats. So the question becomes:

Do I want +1 in 2 or 3 dump stats that don't matter much? Or do I want darkvision so I don't have darkness impairing my attacks plus fire resistance so I take half damage from fire?

Just as an example.

Human is hands down the weakest race in the game because 6 +1s looks strong at first glance but actually adds basically no power to your character at all.

That's not to say it's unplayable, it's perfectly reasonable to beat the game as a Human. But it is definitely the weakest race and anyone who thinks the racials are strong on it right now are falling for a trap.

There are variant humans that are more powerful that may be included later.

[jffrspuk]

Archmage_Bael eredeti hozzászólása:

Soft Lockpick eredeti hozzászólása:

Default Human is, mechanically, the hands down worst race in the game right now. To think this is strong just shows a lack of understanding of the way this game is played.

And that's fine. It's not a knock on you. But instead of arguing about big changes to a system you clearly do not understand (changing the tiefling racials) maybe try the build you were given to make the class and race combination you wanted and see how it feels.

Well if you present me with a race in DnD that gets +1 in everything I'm gonna want to exploit that lol.

So then, how is that mechanically bad? Usually I just try to see the things I need the most, and get a +2 or +3 in 2 or 3 of the stats, and leave the rest with neutral modifiers, as a way to min/max my starting stats. Its done pretty well for me so far going this route. I don't have to resort to barrelmancy to save my hide :P

@jffrspuke - yeah. I know Tieflings all have a native +2 to charisma, which is interesting considering in universe people seem to be discriminatory to tieflings because of their relationship with hell, and what's happened in the past.

Is there something particularly charismatic about them? XD

Think of it this way - the ones that survive to be adventurers must have done a lot of fast talking especially if they are the ones getting blamed for the crops failing, one of the fishing boats is lost at sea, etc.

The other option open to them is to be that individual who doesn't have to worry about walking down the dark alleys as they are the BAMFs who give the rest of the commoners nightmares.

From their race profile

MUTUAL MISTRUST

People tend to be suspicious of tieflings, assuming that their infernal heritage has left its mark on their personality and morality, not just their appearance. Shopkeepers keep a close eye on their goods when tieflings enter their stores, the town watch might follow a tiefling around for a while, and demagogues blame tieflings for strange happenings.

The reality, though, is that a tiefling’s bloodline doesn’t affect his or her personality to any great degree. Years of dealing with mistrust does leave its mark on most tieflings, and they respond to it in different ways. Some choose to live up to the wicked stereotype, but others are virtuous. Most are simply very aware of how people respond to them. After dealing with this mistrust throughout youth, a tiefling often develops the ability to overcome prejudice through charm or intimidation.