Roll failed...

[Mathalis]

So I am in the first big camp you get to. My vampire rogue is talking to a young child and a rogue dialogue choice comes up which states my rogue can name the technique the child is doing to scam his customers. The big moment comes...F A I L...no problem, theirs a second options AND I FAILED AGAIN...reload. This is just not immersive at all. How is my vampire rogue expert who is sneaking around destroying people not catch simple sleight of hands from a 6 year old. How does my massive strong warrior fail to open a small chest or book. These dice rolls need to get changed. This is one of those mechanics that's awesome in DnD games but just does not translate well into a video game.

[tm0Lif3]

this is due to D&D ruleset? as much as i hate save scumming and the failed rolls.. just gotta deal with it? this is after all a DND5e ruleset game.

dice rolling is the heart of DND. either you cheat by save scumming otherwise there's no other way. dice rolling is random.

it should NOT be changed.

[Mathalis]

Originally posted by tm0Lif3:

this is due to D&D ruleset? as much as i hate save scumming and the failed rolls.. just gotta deal with it? this is after all a DND5e ruleset game.

dice rolling is the heart of DND. either you cheat by save scumming otherwise there's no other way. dice rolling is random.

it should NOT be changed.

I respect that this is a DnD game, but not all rules make sense in a video game. I have played DnD for many years. It should not be a roll in certain choices. An experienced rogue talking to a 6 year old should just be good dialogue, not roll needed. I am not loosing to a 6 year old. Its just not realistic at all. Save scumming = bad game play.

[Martin]

I don't even think they are awesome in table top dnd. The story is driven by the dm there and stupid rolls with 6 yr olds would never come to pass.

Unless.. your DM was 6 years old.. maybe.

[Mathalis]

Originally posted by Martin:

I don't even think they are awesome in table top dnd. The story is driven by the dm there and stupid rolls with 6 yr olds would never come to pass.

Unless.. your DM was 6 years old.. maybe.

THIS, there is zero reason to roll for EVERYTHING. Good god, there is a roll for all kinds of stupid crap. It needs to go away.

[FuNb0Y86]

The rolls in Tabletop games were to simulate the chaos of the real world when even if you know you're right, things can still go wrong just because stuff happens that can't be readily explained. For our example in dialogues, it's really about how well you persuade someone, and the resistance that someone else's will has on your skills.

I don't think they're stupid at all. You can save scum past it, or live with failure like we have to do in the real world. Not going to lie, there ARE things I will save scum around, but for now I think I will see where my failures lead me in this game.

They need to keep the dice rolls in at least as an option for the rest of us.

*edit: You would be surprised what a 6yr old can get away with when you are an arrogant jerk who thinks very highly of your own skills, but then isn't paying attention to the underfoot toddler making off with your car keys. I've seen it happen in the real world to guys I knew in the military. Getting foiled by a kid isn't fun, but it does happen lol!

[Planeforger]

Originally posted by Martin:

I don't even think they are awesome in table top dnd. The story is driven by the dm there and stupid rolls with 6 yr olds would never come to pass.

Huh? Why wouldn't a DM force people to make that roll?

Noticing con artists and pickpockets is one of the textbook situations where dice rolls would be involved. I suspect you'll find those rolls in most of the official published adventures. It's bread and butter roleplaying, and practically mandatory when you're dealing with street urchins in a fantasy setting.

It also makes sense mechanically, and highlights the skills and specialisations of the different characters. A crafty rogue is much more likely to notice criminal activity than a big dumb overly-trusting fighter. That's how the dice work, and why proficiency (and expertise) are important.

[UnholyDentist]

I do save scum for the experience to see all outcomes, other than that the game is enjoyable with failed rolls as well. Sometimes I actually had better outcomes with failed rolls, under better I mean more interesting or more desired. Such as killing some murderous scumbags who pretend to be good people instead of helping them.

See the outcomes for yourself, you will realise it's alright to fail rolls, just let things happen.

Last time I failed a roll at the owlbear, and it attacked me, I killed it and its cub. So what... who cares, at least they won't kill more adventurers.

[Pappa]

the problem here is that in table game with a DM often the DM would roll a dice and the players would never even know why unless for some reason your roll was succesful and then you were told what happened . In this game or any other video game where the dice roll is part of the rule set seeing the option and then rolling is not how it would have transpired in table top exactly so it does not transfer very well. I think that environmental skill checks are fine but dialog choices should not be rolled on the options should appear based on your actual skill levels in those skills and be 100% example if you have x skill level in intimidation then in a dialog where it would be an option it is one and you can select it if your skill is not high enough than it is never even listed and you dont see it as an option.

The dialog options with rolls is not a good mechanic. this is obvously my Opinion

[Planeforger]

Originally posted by Pappa:

In this game or any other video game where the dice roll is part of the rule set seeing the option and then rolling is not how it would have transpired in table top exactly so it does not transfer very well.

Ehh...I guess it depends on how the situation is written.

In a tabletop game, a player might say 'I'll attempt to intimidate him - "Drop your weapon before I drop you!"' Then they'll roll to see if they succeed.
In videogame form, that would look like: [Intimidate] Drop your weapon before I drop you. You'd click that and roll to see if you succeed, just like in the tabletop game.

Beyond that, there are heaps of hidden background rolls in conversations. You'll notice successful insight/arcana/nature roles appear in the top right of the screen, granting you additional information and dialogue options.

[FuNb0Y86]

Originally posted by Pappa:

the problem here is that in table game with a DM often the DM would roll a dice and the players would never even know why unless for some reason your roll was succesful and then you were told what happened . In this game or any other video game where the dice roll is part of the rule set seeing the option and then rolling is not how it would have transpired in table top exactly so it does not transfer very well. I think that environmental skill checks are fine but dialog choices should not be rolled on the options should appear based on your actual skill levels in those skills and be 100% example if you have x skill level in intimidation then in a dialog where it would be an option it is one and you can select it if your skill is not high enough than it is never even listed and you dont see it as an option.

The dialog options with rolls is not a good mechanic. this is obvously my Opinion

With my DMs, I rolled my own skills checks. He or she rolled the NPC ones, then explained what happened. Sometimes I would ask the number, so we could laugh at how I pissed on the electric fence and died.

[Coldhands]

Originally posted by Mathalis:

So I am in the first big camp you get to. My vampire rogue is talking to a young child and a rogue dialogue choice comes up which states my rogue can name the technique the child is doing to scam his customers. The big moment comes...F A I L...no problem, theirs a second options AND I FAILED AGAIN...reload. This is just not immersive at all. How is my vampire rogue expert who is sneaking around destroying people not catch simple sleight of hands from a 6 year old. How does my massive strong warrior fail to open a small chest or book. These dice rolls need to get changed. This is one of those mechanics that's awesome in DnD games but just does not translate well into a video game.

The issue is that at the table a failed skill check doesn’t mean what the player is trying to accomplish ends, the DM and players can make up new complications or twists that happen on a failure and keep the fun and the story going.

Video games can’t do that, and writing different results for failure that are just as interesting as success takes tons of time and resources to craft content a lot of players will never see.

That’s why the active skill checks in BG3 are a bad idea. They present the player with the possibility of arbitrary failure, which never feels good, and don’t offer interesting results for that outcome. It’s a situation where trying to implement RaW tabletop design is actually bad video game design.

[FuNb0Y86]

Two skill checks happen during one of the first cutscenes after crashing the nautiloid craft. One: do you resist the mind control, if you pass, two: do you spie on his mind? If you fail one, you can be taken control of long enough for the spie check, and if you fail both, i don't know what happens because I haven't seen it, but my point is there is a bit of complexity going on in cutscenes.

I think the OP just wants the dice to go away because dice simulate something intangible and the dice are tangible and take away from immersion

*edit: I would like the option to keep the UI there just because some playthroughs, I'm nostalgic like that lol!

[Mathalis]

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Originally posted by Mathalis:

So I am in the first big camp you get to. My vampire rogue is talking to a young child and a rogue dialogue choice comes up which states my rogue can name the technique the child is doing to scam his customers. The big moment comes...F A I L...no problem, theirs a second options AND I FAILED AGAIN...reload. This is just not immersive at all. How is my vampire rogue expert who is sneaking around destroying people not catch simple sleight of hands from a 6 year old. How does my massive strong warrior fail to open a small chest or book. These dice rolls need to get changed. This is one of those mechanics that's awesome in DnD games but just does not translate well into a video game.

The issue is that at the table a failed skill check doesn’t mean what the player is trying to accomplish ends, the DM and players can make up new complications or twists that happen on a failure and keep the fun and the story going.

Video games can’t do that, and writing different results for failure that are just as interesting as success takes tons of time and resources to craft content a lot of players will never see.

That’s why the active skill checks in BG3 are a bad idea. They present the player with the possibility of arbitrary failure, which never feels good, and don’t offer interesting results for that outcome. It’s a situation where trying to implement RaW tabletop design is actually bad video game design.

I agree. I understand the role of the DM and why DnD has these. Everyone giving me a speech on why the rules are the rules can calm down. I just don't think it translates to fun gameplay to see a huge dice roll on the screen fail when I have massive skill into the associated skill. It's not fun.

[Mathalis]

Originally posted by FuNb0Y86:

Two skill checks happen during one of the first cutscenes after crashing the nautiloid craft. One: do you resist the mind control, if you pass, two: do you spie on his mind? If you fail one, you can be taken control of long enough for the spie check, and if you fail both, i don't know what happens because I haven't seen it, but my point is there is a bit of complexity going on in cutscenes.

I think the OP just wants the dice to go away because dice simulate something intangible and the dice are tangible and take away from immersion

*edit: I would like the option to keep the UI there just because some playthroughs, I'm nostalgic like that lol!

I don't like failing things that I would never fail in a real situation. A character with 18 strength shouldn't fail opening a book. An experienced rogue should not fail at noticing a 6 year old doing novice rogue stuff. It should just be a dialogue choice based upon skill with a 100% success chance. The randomness for that stuff is awesome in combat, but in dialogue it is not immersive and not fun.

[Mathalis]

Originally posted by FuNb0Y86:

Two skill checks happen during one of the first cutscenes after crashing the nautiloid craft. One: do you resist the mind control, if you pass, two: do you spie on his mind? If you fail one, you can be taken control of long enough for the spie check, and if you fail both, i don't know what happens because I haven't seen it, but my point is there is a bit of complexity going on in cutscenes.

I think the OP just wants the dice to go away because dice simulate something intangible and the dice are tangible and take away from immersion

*edit: I would like the option to keep the UI there just because some playthroughs, I'm nostalgic like that lol!

The answer is nothing, you just keep going anyway. They have way too many pointless rolls for no real reason so far.