Melee cleric instead of fighter?

[Brian Sirith]

Sorry for the two threads in a row. I just hit lvl 4 and trying to understand what the deal is.

Anyway: I don't see it. I play PF and I'm used to playing clerics. I like playing them for the RP. They buff themselves (pre-buff on occasion) and get into the front line. Not as good as fighters but I can see where it balances out. Here: I can only keep one buff up and if I miss the concentration check it goes down anyway. I even lose the buff if I use my tieflings searing smite. Whats the point? Am I missing something? Is 5e just for caster clerics?

Any advice is welcome. I'm thinking maybe in the final game just start with a couple of levels of cleric and then dual class. Or some Paladin of an evil god... dunno. Ive seen the light cleric video btw. I am not interested in a caster.

Thanks

[Soul]

It might be a little ways off until all the classes are in but I've always found druids to be nice too. Having all those support spells and then shifting into something that can fight when your done casting and jumping into the melee.

[Alealexi]

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

The problem is that RIGHT NOW, clerics don't have access to their Melee Domains. You can't choose War domain, which allows you to make multiple Melee attacks in a turn, or any of the Domains that add elemental damage to your melee attacks.

A melee cleric is STILL GOOD, just missing out on several things that could be useful. For example...

A dwarven cleric with 16 Con can slap Protection from Evil, giving all attacks against him Disadvantage from evil creatures (Most creatures really). at a nice 17-18 AC with a shield and a mace. Due to your high CON score you can probably take a few hits before dropping the spell too

But here's what you'll wanna look into

Melee Domains:
Life domain - Adds radiant damage to melee attacks, but no good spells to synergize with melee especially. Can self heal with Healing word at increased effectiveness

Nature Domain - Adds Fire, Cold, or Thunder damage on hit for Melee attacks, and you get to choose! Good for targeting weaknesses. But that's it.

Tempest Domain - Gets proficiency in heavy armor and all weapons. Adds thunder damage to melee attacks. Can deal Thunder based Retribution damage like Hellish Rebuke in Melee. Can use it's Channel Divinity to roll MAXIMUM DAMAGE on thunder spells and effects. at 17th level can fly. Can just fly. Can just FLY WHENEVER They're outside. FLY

Trickery Domain - Access to Mirror Image, Blink, and Polymorph. Polymorph into a T-REX if you wanna melee, why not? But no other synergy with melee

WAR DOMAIN - Proficiency in all armor and weapons. Gets shield of Faith, Magic weapon, Spiritual Weapon, Crusader's Mantle, Freedom of movement, STONESKIN as spells, along with a few others! Can make weapon attacks as BONUS ACTIONS (a few times a day...) Can use Channel Divinity to get +10 to the roll of a weapon attack. Adds 1d8 MORE DAMAGE to all weapon attacks. Resistance to all non-magical damage.



So as you see, WAR and Tempest domains aren't in the game yet, but when they are, you can make pretty beastly Melee Clerics

You could also add arcana domain if they also add the blade cantrips in a DLC. This domain lets you pick two wizard cantrip so spells like booming blade & green flame blade which is amazing for doing damage in melee. Those spells also don't require sword just a weapon. At level 8 you get to add your wisdom modifier to your cantrip so that is both your STR or DEX mod plus your WIS mod in a damage roll with those cantrip.

[GRRz|Snake]

I'll be completely honest , if you want to play a Warrior of the Light , you should wait for Paladins.

But if you really want to play a melee Cleric, you should wait for their War Domain...


but again you will be behind Paladins in terms of melee damage/efficiency , Clerics are like Priests from WoW (they are mostly casters) and Paladins are like Fighters of the Light. (with buffs and stuff).

to give you an example :
---------------------------------
Cleric - more casting, less fighting (Preacher/Priest Type)

Paladin - more fighting, less casting (Crusader Type)

[Indure]

Originally posted by Alealexi:

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

The problem is that RIGHT NOW, clerics don't have access to their Melee Domains. You can't choose War domain, which allows you to make multiple Melee attacks in a turn, or any of the Domains that add elemental damage to your melee attacks.

A melee cleric is STILL GOOD, just missing out on several things that could be useful. For example...

A dwarven cleric with 16 Con can slap Protection from Evil, giving all attacks against him Disadvantage from evil creatures (Most creatures really). at a nice 17-18 AC with a shield and a mace. Due to your high CON score you can probably take a few hits before dropping the spell too

But here's what you'll wanna look into

Melee Domains:
Life domain - Adds radiant damage to melee attacks, but no good spells to synergize with melee especially. Can self heal with Healing word at increased effectiveness

Nature Domain - Adds Fire, Cold, or Thunder damage on hit for Melee attacks, and you get to choose! Good for targeting weaknesses. But that's it.

Tempest Domain - Gets proficiency in heavy armor and all weapons. Adds thunder damage to melee attacks. Can deal Thunder based Retribution damage like Hellish Rebuke in Melee. Can use it's Channel Divinity to roll MAXIMUM DAMAGE on thunder spells and effects. at 17th level can fly. Can just fly. Can just FLY WHENEVER They're outside. FLY

Trickery Domain - Access to Mirror Image, Blink, and Polymorph. Polymorph into a T-REX if you wanna melee, why not? But no other synergy with melee

WAR DOMAIN - Proficiency in all armor and weapons. Gets shield of Faith, Magic weapon, Spiritual Weapon, Crusader's Mantle, Freedom of movement, STONESKIN as spells, along with a few others! Can make weapon attacks as BONUS ACTIONS (a few times a day...) Can use Channel Divinity to get +10 to the roll of a weapon attack. Adds 1d8 MORE DAMAGE to all weapon attacks. Resistance to all non-magical damage.



So as you see, WAR and Tempest domains aren't in the game yet, but when they are, you can make pretty beastly Melee Clerics

You could also add arcana domain if they also add the blade cantrips in a DLC. This domain lets you pick two wizard cantrip so spells like booming blade & green flame blade which is amazing for doing damage in melee. Those spells also don't require sword just a weapon. At level 8 you get to add your wisdom modifier to your cantrip so that is both your STR or DEX mod plus your WIS mod in a damage roll with those cantrip.

Most of the things you listed aren't part of PHB so its very iffy if they will make it into BG3.

[Indure]

Originally posted by Brian Sirith:

Please no debates! I don't care about general discussions. i asked about building a melee cleric. It has been answered.

Unless someone has something specific to contribute a how to build a good melee cleric... you are off topic. Please make another thread.

Thank you all.

I think Mr. Fred as usual is right, especially at levels 1-4 there isn't that much difference between performance of classes.

Honestly, what do you think a fighter gets that makes them so good in melee compared to a cleric. At level 2 they get either +1AC, or an average of +1 damage per turn in their chosen damage type. At level 3 they get Battle Master which is a bonus 1d6 per turn with 12 uses per day. Besides getting marital weapon proficiency which only makes a big difference with two-handed weapons (and later great weapon master), and a very limit use of action surge; that's all they get over a cleric by level 4.

If you want to make a competent melee cleric there are a lot of options. For example a Shield Dwarf, Light Cleric could:

1. 16/14/14/8/14/10 build or 16/12/16/8/14/10 build depending on if you favor +1AC or +1 con saves. Early game get best 1-hander + shield + Lae'zel's armor. Work your way to Gnolls to get shattered flail. By the time you make it to the goblins you should be gaining level 4. Pickup dual wielding feat and use one of the goblin chiefs mace/warhammer + shatter flail and your set. While at the goblin camp get crushers ring and it will fix your movement speed deficiency.

2. Alternatively you could shift the 2 points in charisma to get 17 str and pickup weapon master feat at level 4 to get 18 str and gain proficiency with greatswords. Get Sword of Justice for a solid two-hand weapon that allows you to constantly keep up Shield of Faith to boost your AC.

Your spellcasting will be 5-10% harder to hit with, but at early levels it's not too noticeable and you really want to get advantage anyways for the accuracy increase before you cast offensive spells.

[Brian Sirith]

Originally posted by Indure:

Originally posted by Brian Sirith:

Please no debates! I don't care about general discussions. i asked about building a melee cleric. It has been answered.

Unless someone has something specific to contribute a how to build a good melee cleric... you are off topic. Please make another thread.

Thank you all.

I think Mr. Fred as usual is right, especially at levels 1-4 there isn't that much difference between performance of classes.

Honestly, what do you think a fighter gets that makes them so good in melee compared to a cleric. At level 2 they get either +1AC, or an average of +1 damage per turn in their chosen damage type. At level 3 they get Battle Master which is a bonus 1d6 per turn with 12 uses per day. Besides getting marital weapon proficiency which only makes a big difference with two-handed weapons (and later great weapon master), and a very limit use of action surge; that's all they get over a cleric by level 4.

If you want to make a competent melee cleric there are a lot of options. For example a Shield Dwarf, Light Cleric could:

1. 16/14/14/8/14/10 build or 16/12/16/8/14/10 build depending on if you favor +1AC or +1 con saves. Early game get best 1-hander + shield + Lae'zel's armor. Work your way to Gnolls to get shattered flail. By the time you make it to the goblins you should be gaining level 4. Pickup dual wielding feat and use one of the goblin chiefs mace/warhammer + shatter flail and your set. While at the goblin camp get crushers ring and it will fix your movement speed deficiency.

2. Alternatively you could shift the 2 points in charisma to get 17 str and pickup weapon master feat at level 4 to get 18 str and gain proficiency with greatswords. Get Sword of Justice for a solid two-hand weapon that allows you to constantly keep up Shield of Faith to boost your AC.

Your spellcasting will be 5-10% harder to hit with, but at early levels it's not too noticeable and you really want to get advantage anyways for the accuracy increase before you cast offensive spells.

Appreciate the detailed post. There's two things I won't change Evil Tiefling and I won't kill my friend Laz for her armour. I currently an using the two handed word from the dead paladin. Think were talking about the same one. I'll havent been using shield of Faith though... will check it.

Thanks everyone. This is useful info :)

[guard65]

as mush as i like the concept of running a cleric. The BG3 mage bug makes them a waste of my time, imho. Every cleric spell found on a scroll can be learned by your mage and then cast. As well as warlock spells and so on. They may still run the vertical of their attribute but casts just the same. The only thing you need as a mage/cleric is the armor and weapons. Since I start the game at level 4 and play through to level 10+, feats cover the skills gap. It helps having a dagger with [data "WeaponFunctors" "RegainHitPoints(SELF,1)"] since you never have hp for the front line.

[Alealexi]

Originally posted by Indure:

Originally posted by Alealexi:

You could also add arcana domain if they also add the blade cantrips in a DLC. This domain lets you pick two wizard cantrip so spells like booming blade & green flame blade which is amazing for doing damage in melee. Those spells also don't require sword just a weapon. At level 8 you get to add your wisdom modifier to your cantrip so that is both your STR or DEX mod plus your WIS mod in a damage roll with those cantrip.

Most of the things you listed aren't part of PHB so its very iffy if they will make it into BG3.

Which is why I said "if" they add it in a DLC. I know it won't be on release but Larian has added DLC in their games like in D:OS2. Either way there are also mods like the expanded cleric domain mod that adds more domains and 5e cantrips mod to add other cantrips like the sorely needed by clerics "Toll the Dead".

[alanc9]

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

A dwarven cleric with 16 Con can slap Protection from Evil, giving all attacks against him Disadvantage from evil creatures (Most creatures really). at a nice 17-18 AC with a shield and a mace. Due to your high CON score you can probably take a few hits before dropping the spell too

You sure it still works like that? Pretty sure Protection from Good and Evil doesn't work on that many things.

[alanc9]

Originally posted by guard65:

as mush as i like the concept of running a cleric. The BG3 mage bug makes them a waste of my time, imho. Every cleric spell found on a scroll can be learned by your mage and then cast. As well as warlock spells and so on. They may still run the vertical of their attribute but casts just the same. The only thing you need as a mage/cleric is the armor and weapons. Since I start the game at level 4 and play through to level 10+, feats cover the skills gap. It helps having a dagger with [data "WeaponFunctors" "RegainHitPoints(SELF,1)"] since you never have hp for the front line.

Hmmm... cheating does give you a few options you wouldn't ordinarily have, yeah.

[Brian Sirith]

Originally posted by alanc9:

Originally posted by guard65:

as mush as i like the concept of running a cleric. The BG3 mage bug makes them a waste of my time, imho. Every cleric spell found on a scroll can be learned by your mage and then cast. As well as warlock spells and so on. They may still run the vertical of their attribute but casts just the same. The only thing you need as a mage/cleric is the armor and weapons. Since I start the game at level 4 and play through to level 10+, feats cover the skills gap. It helps having a dagger with [data "WeaponFunctors" "RegainHitPoints(SELF,1)"] since you never have hp for the front line.

Hmmm... cheating does give you a few options you wouldn't ordinarily have, yeah.

I don’t intend to mod the game so anything of that sort isn’t of interest.

@Alea I did look up the domains online and they were more or less what you mentioned. Is that different from the official rules?

Here’s where I was looking:

http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/cleric:war

[TheBlueFox]

Originally posted by alanc9:

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

A dwarven cleric with 16 Con can slap Protection from Evil, giving all attacks against him Disadvantage from evil creatures (Most creatures really). at a nice 17-18 AC with a shield and a mace. Due to your high CON score you can probably take a few hits before dropping the spell too

You sure it still works like that? Pretty sure Protection from Good and Evil doesn't work on that many things.

Normally it doesn't, it's supposed to work on things like Fey, aberrations, fiends, undead, celestials. However I believe that CURRENTLY in the game, it works on most things. I'll have to doublecheck. Now this may change as more creatures are added, in which case you can substitute Prot(Evil Good) for Shield of faith to bring yourself up to 20AC, as that DOES seem to work with a shield equipped also based off it's wording

[bellofury]

I'm playing a Light Domain cleric who's pretty decent in melee. Best one in her party, but that's because her competition is a wizard and a warlock.

They'll be more viable once they add the other cleric domains.

[Brian Sirith]

Originally posted by Iron Crabber:

I'm playing a Light Domain cleric who's pretty decent in melee. Best one in her party, but that's because her competition is a wizard and a warlock.

They'll be more viable once they add the other cleric domains.

Weapon, armour n stats? If you feel like sharing :)

I've been quite happy with my cleric too -been a while since the post. Have some heavy range spells when I cant reach and a double handed sword for when I can :)

[Something completely different]

The problem with a melee cleric is concentration.

A lot of very good clerical spells require that without war caster one unlucky blow can end your spell. Granted, it can happen with warcaster as well but the chances are a lot lower.