Baldur's Gate 3

Baldur's Gate 3

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is feairy fire just a lothsworn spell?
the thing is it looks pretty op...advantage for the whole group. Kinda makes a + 1 to a random stat seem useless. Are there any other racials on par or should lothsworn be the default race...
Also I noticed most races get a racial humans get nothing are humans supposed to suck compare to everyone else?
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Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
Dragon Master Oct 12, 2020 @ 1:36pm 
Faerie fire is a great spell. Drow get it just for being drow. Other classes can learn it.

Humans don't get special skills or abilities like dark vision, but humans get something no other race get. A +1 to every single attribute so they can be really, really good as any class.
Graygan Oct 12, 2020 @ 1:37pm 
The non-humans get 3 bonus stat points and a spell or ability or both. Humans get quite a bit more stat points.
Humans don't suck at all. Most races get a +3 to ability scores, humans get a +6. That's worth a lot more than it seems at first glance (but yes, human does tend to be a bit lacklustre compared to some races).

Drow getting stuff like Faerie Fire is usually counterbalanced by them also getting Sunlight Sensitivity, which makes them have disadvantage on attacks while in sunlight, but they don't have that weakness in BG3 since it would make them super weak in a large chunk of the game's area.
provokastoras Oct 12, 2020 @ 2:04pm 
dunno the +2 in extra stat does count for 3 points...
and unless you go for fighter, the extra weapon skills are really cool... especially the drow weapon skills that allow you to use finesse reducing the MAD (MIscelaneous ability distribution) to practically 2 stats for most classes. Tbh the high elf or dwarven weapon skills are not nearly that usefull. I can make a drow wizard and give him dex, int and con and be as good at melee as he is at ranged and in par with a fighter (... which seems kind of imbalanced. on top I can dump str fto get extra stats without affecting melee damage ... Well i am kind of new in 5th edition but drows do seem to have clear advantage to me. Yeah yadda yadda light sensitivity nice and all if its not in this game is not so it definetely is not balancing factor...
also if I am not mistaken in 5e getting a feat is as important as a +2 in stats... you should really balance all those extra skills as at least 2 feats in a balancing equation.
Indure Oct 12, 2020 @ 2:37pm 
Faerie Fire requires a saving throw (dex), which means you need high charisma or your chance to hit is going to suck. Add to that it is a concentration spell, so you can't cast other powerful buffs at the same time and if you get hit you have a chance of losing the effect.

Generally speaking humans suck. In the tabletop version there is a variant human which is arguably the best race across the board, but it currently doesn't exist in BG3.
Last edited by Indure; Oct 12, 2020 @ 2:40pm
Locklave Oct 12, 2020 @ 2:39pm 
Originally posted by Dragon Master:
...humans get something no other race get. A +1 to every single attribute so they can be really, really good as any class.
Yep those +1s to my dump stats make all the difference lol.

Humans are terrible. All forms of half elf are better.
Brady4444 Oct 12, 2020 @ 2:40pm 
In AD&D, humans are designed as the 'jack of all trades' race. Humans aren't specialized like the demihumans. On the other hand, when played to their strengths, the demihumans tend to be better in their area of specialty.
provokastoras Oct 12, 2020 @ 2:58pm 
Originally posted by Brady4444:
In AD&D, humans are designed as the 'jack of all trades' race. Humans aren't specialized like the demihumans. On the other hand, when played to their strengths, the demihumans tend to be better in their area of specialty.
in ad&d humans where the only race to dual class... which allowed them certain unparalleled shenanigans and that made them the race of choice.
Locklave Oct 12, 2020 @ 3:05pm 
Originally posted by Brady4444:
In AD&D, humans are designed as the 'jack of all trades' race. Humans aren't specialized like the demihumans. On the other hand, when played to their strengths, the demihumans tend to be better in their area of specialty.

In the earlier editions humans got extra feats and skills, those allowed humans to match specialized races. It's not really jack of all trades, it's flexible specialization. They couldn't match the raw power however.

In this Humans are just worse. Unless humans get skills or feats on later levels I'm unaware of, I don't know 5th edition for crap. I stopped playing tabletop in 4th edition.

Originally posted by provokastoras:
in ad&d humans where the only race to dual class... which allowed them certain unparalleled shenanigans and that made them the race of choice.
Omg I totally forgot that stuff, you could do such broken stuff and all within the poorly defined rules.
AuraForLaura Oct 12, 2020 @ 3:10pm 
Originally posted by provokastoras:
dunno the +2 in extra stat does count for 3 points...
and unless you go for fighter, the extra weapon skills are really cool... especially the drow weapon skills that allow you to use finesse reducing the MAD (MIscelaneous ability distribution) to practically 2 stats for most classes. Tbh the high elf or dwarven weapon skills are not nearly that usefull. I can make a drow wizard and give him dex, int and con and be as good at melee as he is at ranged and in par with a fighter (... which seems kind of imbalanced. on top I can dump str fto get extra stats without affecting melee damage ... Well i am kind of new in 5th edition but drows do seem to have clear advantage to me. Yeah yadda yadda light sensitivity nice and all if its not in this game is not so it definetely is not balancing factor...
also if I am not mistaken in 5e getting a feat is as important as a +2 in stats... you should really balance all those extra skills as at least 2 feats in a balancing equation.

You could also make a Gith wizard and pump str. and wear heavy armor and a greatsword - and be as good a fighter with as much armor... He also gets free teleport and invis mage hand and stuff... You could also make a high elf wizard and it would be better than a drow because he gets bonus int.. However for other classes dwarf seem very superior in many ways, except beying ugly.... I dont find Drow any more imbalanced than the other races. Wood elf moves faster and make excelent rangers...

I think fighter classes get an extra attack at level 5 - so the fact that EA goes to exactly lvl 4 kinda makes casters a bit superior right now - but i dont think it will stay that way....

Another problem with fearie-fire, is that it requires concentration - so it competes with spells like hex, hunters mark, BLESS .... even shield of faith is kinda good if stacked ontop of AC...

Also later on multiclass will be available and that will change everything..

But i dunno
Last edited by AuraForLaura; Oct 12, 2020 @ 3:10pm
Dragon Master Oct 12, 2020 @ 3:10pm 
Originally posted by Locklave:
Originally posted by Dragon Master:
...humans get something no other race get. A +1 to every single attribute so they can be really, really good as any class.
Yep those +1s to my dump stats make all the difference lol.

Humans are terrible. All forms of half elf are better.

Having a guaranteed 16 for your main stat in the point-buy system, no matter what class you play if you pick a human, really makes a big deal.

If I want to be a drow wizard, I can but I'll have 1 less to my intelligence modifier than I would as a tiefling or a human. Strongheart Halfling warlock? Same thing. Dwarf Ranger?

Humans can be good at any class, whereas other races can be those classes but have to wait until level 4 to get the ability boost so they can get to as good as a human is naturally if that race isn't already good at that attribute.
Locklave Oct 12, 2020 @ 3:19pm 
Originally posted by Dragon Master:
Originally posted by Locklave:
Yep those +1s to my dump stats make all the difference lol.

Humans are terrible. All forms of half elf are better.

Having a guaranteed 16 for your main stat in the point-buy system, no matter what class you play if you pick a human, really makes a big deal.

If I want to be a drow wizard, I can but I'll have 1 less to my intelligence modifier than I would as a tiefling or a human. Strongheart Halfling warlock? Same thing. Dwarf Ranger?

Humans can be good at any class, whereas other races can be those classes but have to wait until level 4 to get the ability boost so they can get to as good as a human is naturally if that race isn't already good at that attribute.

Half elves get to choose 2 stats to have +1 in, so they get that and a secondary stat on top of a truck load of bonus features. Also a +2 chr for giggles. So again, Half elves, all of them > Humans.

So Half elves get 16 in primary/secondary or 17 if it's chr. So they match or exceed Humans just in stats.

Unless you are gonna argue dump stats are worth more then the like 8 bonuses Half elves get.

Humans suck. Half elves are more flexible and powerful, they do it better.
Dragon Master Oct 12, 2020 @ 3:20pm 
Originally posted by Locklave:
Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Having a guaranteed 16 for your main stat in the point-buy system, no matter what class you play if you pick a human, really makes a big deal.

If I want to be a drow wizard, I can but I'll have 1 less to my intelligence modifier than I would as a tiefling or a human. Strongheart Halfling warlock? Same thing. Dwarf Ranger?

Humans can be good at any class, whereas other races can be those classes but have to wait until level 4 to get the ability boost so they can get to as good as a human is naturally if that race isn't already good at that attribute.

Half elves get to choose 2 stats to have +1 in, so they get that and a secondary stat on top of a truck load of bonus features. Also a +2 chr for giggles. So again, Half elves, all of them > Humans.

So Half elves get 16 in primary/secondary or 17 if it's chr. So they match or exceed Humans just in stats.

Unless you are gonna argue dump stats are worth more then the like 8 bonuses Half elves get.

Humans suck. Half elves are more flexible and powerful, they do it better.

Not arguing that half-elves are awesome. Just making the argument that humans don't suck as much as you make them out to.
Speedy Gonzalles Oct 12, 2020 @ 3:25pm 
There's one thing that's missing from this game that would change humans to be pretty incredible is the variant human rule. A variant human gets a +1 to 2 stats and a free feat and a free skill proficiency.
Locklave Oct 12, 2020 @ 3:37pm 
Originally posted by Dragon Master:
Not arguing that half-elves are awesome. Just making the argument that humans don't suck as much as you make them out to.

On what scale are you measuring them then? They aren't the best at anything and they aren't even the best generalist. The best generalist, Half elves, can compete and be closely compared to the most optimal race/class combos.

If you insist on measuring them against screwed up sub optimal race/class builds then you are comparing them to the weakest worst choices. If you need to set the bar that low to get a favourable comparison then what does that mean? They aren't the most terrible?

5th edition seems to be the weakest version of Humans that existed in any D&D ever. 3.5th and 4th there were valid arguments that Human is the best choice for specialized build that were feat heavy. No one will ever say that in 5th edition.

This is entirely about optimization here. If people wanna play a Human, w/e go for it, just don't lie to yourself and pretend that it was a good choice mechanically or optimal in any way.
Last edited by Locklave; Oct 12, 2020 @ 3:38pm
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Date Posted: Oct 12, 2020 @ 1:34pm
Posts: 21