WHat is up with changing the spells

[ArkalyeDR]

started a wizard yesterday and to my surprise i noticed that Firebolt do less damage than chill touch! wth fire bolt is a 1d10 ranged spell attack, it has no enhanced effects for a reason. why do the other cantrips get to keep their added effects and the primary damage cantrip for wizards losses the thing that makes it viable... this is poor balancing design.

[Zerondar]

Firebolt cause a burning effect (1D4), so if you combine that with the base 1D6 you get a possible result of 2-10 instead of 1-10 dmge in most cases it's an actual damage upgrade.

ofcourse in some situations the target is already on fire or can't be put on fire, which will make it a damage loss, still in that case you got other spells/cantrips you can use

[ArkalyeDR]

then they should of given us conjure Bonfire, thats literaly what it does

[ArkalyeDR]

i was so hoping we'd get a comprehensive spell list like Owlcat did with Kingmaker, and preivous editions of DnD had... ie neverwinter nights, icewindale 1 & 2, BG 1 & 2, this is starting to feeal like sword coast legends with a touch of Daggerdale....why is it so hard to get another game that is faithful to the TTRPG, not some half assed cookie cutter RPG

[sevenfoothamster]

Fire bolt lights things on fire, it does an additional d4 of damage. This damage actually, from what i've seen thus far, doesn't have a saving throw.

it's also ranged. Chill Touch is not. Chill Touch does more damage that Fire Bolt to balance the fact that you need to be in touch range to cast it. Unless you mean Ray of Frost? In which yeah it deals more damage up front, but less potential damage than firebolt.

i was so hoping we'd get a comprehensive spell list like Owlcat did with Kingmaker, and preivous editions of DnD had... ie neverwinter nights, icewindale 1 & 2, BG 1 & 2, this is starting to feeal like sword coast legends with a touch of Daggerdale....why is it so hard to get another game that is faithful to the TTRPG, not some half assed cookie cutter RPG

Because what works and is balanced for a TTRPG will not necessarily be balanced for a CRPG. Funny you mention Owlcat because Pathfinder: Kingmaker's spell list is NOT comprehensive. They left a lot of spells out for either balance reasons or because they would be hot garbage in a CRPG. Wall of Stone, for example, does NOT work how it does in the TTRPG. And that's just scratching the surface.

[ArkalyeDR]

chill touch is ranged friend, same 18m as firebolt, and sorry firebolt is not supposed to light things on fire unless they are unattended it specifically states that in the RAW. i am hoping i can get a refund as i wanted D&d not DoS 3 using the D&D brand to lure players in.

Here's the thing if you build the game right, most rules in the TTRPG will translate to the game. Problem is most devs don't care, nor put forth the time and effort to do it right. I'm just saying don't give me ♥♥♥♥ and call it Chocolate pudding.

[Kohwalter]

It's because Larian loves to set things on fire and leave a burning surface or other type of elemental harzard. Just look at DOS 1 and 2. All elemental spells leave a patch in the ground so they went out of their way to adapt that on BG3.

[ArkalyeDR]

and with any luck i'll get my money back

[sevenfoothamster]

Originally posted by DarkDagas84:

chill touch is ranged friend, same 18m as firebolt, and sorry firebolt is not supposed to light things on fire unless they are unattended it specifically states that in the RAW. i am hoping i can get a refund as i wanted D&d not DoS 3 usings the D&D brand to lure players in.

Ah yes they made it a ranged attack. The original in the TTRPG before 5e was a touch attack (thus chill TOUCH). Dunno why they kept the name. Shoulda changed that, honestly.

And again, developers make changes to D&D (and pathfinder) spell lists all the time, because, and please read carefully:

What works in a TTRPG might not necessarily work in a CRPG environment.

Case in point, the idea of "unattended objects" is a ♥♥♥♥♥ to program in a CRPG. What's an "unattended object"? Is it equipment? What about the floor? Is the floor attended?

Larian likes to play with exploitable surfaces, like fire, water, blood, electricity, etc. They needed a cantrip that can interact with those, so they tacked on another effect to Fire Bolt.

If you honestly, sincerely have a problem with this to the point that it's ruining the game for you, you must have not enjoyed BG1, BG2, NWN, NWN2, NW(online), DDO, PF:KM, Planescape: Torment or any other CRPG made based on D&D

They *cannot* translate the entire spell list to a CRPG effectively. It just can't work properly because a TTRPG can handle factors (namely, abstract concepts and values) that a CRPG cannot.

And sometimes, if there's a certain something you want in your CRPG, you might need to make a change to something to better suit it. Sometimes this means completely altering class features, sometimes this means changing spells to interact better with the environment because you want the environments to have meaning.

Let's look at the advantages of changing Fire Bolt to be 1d6+1d4(burning) rather than a flat 1d10:

1) It prevents "Spell Select Forcing". The player is now encouraged to pick cantrips other than firebolt for damage. You yourself said firebolt was "the primary source of damage", right? Well, that's actually a problem. Why have Ray of Frost, Chill Touch, and Acid Splash if everyone's just going to pick Firebolt?

2) It lets the player better interact with the environment. You don't have to use a first level spell slot to light distant torches. This ACTUALLY comes into play in the game as it stands right now.

3) It lets the player specialize a little bit more. This goes back to controlling the environment, but there are already magic items that let you get special effects for being in certain surfaces. And knowing Larian, they're gonna add more.

If you can't stand a little house ruling to make things more interesting, you really must not find any joy in any CRPG.

[ArkalyeDR]

as per PHB:

Chill touch
Necromancy Cantrip
casting time 1 action
range 120 ft
components V, S
Duration 1 round

you create a ghostly, skeletal hand in the space of a creature within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the creature to assail it with the chill of the grave. On a hit, the target takes 1d8 necrotic damage.

straight from the PHB pg 221

i find the comparison to this DoS clone to any of the preivous BG games, with its lack of party customizaion, cardboard cut out companions with no inherent personality, abborent optimization, and complete lack of any meaningful character customization, a little concerning. If D&D players keep accepting these substandard "interpritations" of the game many of us have played for over 30 years, then this is all we are ever gonna get.

i mean honestly just on the compainions i met in the time i played, you could have pulled them out of Dragon age, DoS 2, or any other rpg in the last 10 years, there is no substance to them they literally ride the same trope to a T.

but i digress, many with find this game great and thats their choice at the end of the day i have made my choice and hope that my $$ is refunded as i do not wish to support what i feel is a bastardization of a game system i have spent 30 years playing. just as i did with Sword Coast Legends, It is not D&D, its not what i was looking for and as such I do not wish to spend my money on it.