Thoughts on Disengage as a Bonus Action - and no Dodge??

[Bob Loblaw]

So - I dunno how many of you are D&D players.

But the whole deal with disengage in 5th edition, is it's a full action.

This is why people love the Rogue, because you get a class feat that allows you to disengage as a bonus action.

Now any character can just disengage from combat, no Attack of Opp...

Not sure why they decided to vary from the 5th edition rules on this, as I think it's really balanced - and is a reason you go Rogue.


Also, no dodge?? I really hope they introduce a dodge mechanic, that is a full action - and imposes disadvantage on attack rolls until the start of your next turn.

There are a few little variations from 5th ed rules that I don't understand that much at this point.

[Mr_hanky]

Originalmente postado por Walchynski:

I think jump/disengage is pretty silly too. Also when I used it to "disengage" from combat they enemy got an opportunity attack, I'm assuming that's a bug though.

If you move before jumping, enemies get a free attack. So probably working as intended, however the UI seems a bit buggy when you execute jumps.

[Ellix]

The Shove/Disengage abilities most certainly need to be taken away from being baseline bonus actions, and hopefully we will get Readied Actions and Dodge, especially as another upcoming game with less pedigree than Larian is providing those options.

[Bob Loblaw]

Originalmente postado por TrueWarlord真の武:

We're collecting/posting changes in the D&D 5e core rules in this thread:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1086940/discussions/0/2971771480485232145/

My bet is that some changes are on purpose, and we can provide feedback during Early Access, but some changes may very well be due to bugs/mistakes.

Yeah I'm looking forward to see what changes come and go through the EA process

[GerbilSandwich]

Yeah, this makes the game so much harder for melee characters - disengage really should be an action. It makes melee characters a bit stickier, and adds weight to the decision to flee for an archer, incentivizing them to either disengage and not attack, or swap to melee, making gish's and those type of characters more useful

[Indure]

Yeah the jump/disengage should be an action not a bonus action. Being able to disengage is a big deal. Also on higher strength characters the jump covers more distance than the stamina it burns so you can cover much more ground by starting a move with a jump ... It's like a free dash.

[Creslin]

Yeah I agree with OP. Making disengage a bonus action for everyone makes it so a squishy or ranged character being threatened in melee is kind of meaningless. They just jump away, and then can shoot with no disadvantage.

Shove as a bonus action for all seems to be too much too...but I get that it would nearly never be used if it were a full action. Maybe make it a bonus action just for fighters?

[Stabbey]

Both Shove and Disengage as bonus actions are indeed too powerful, as they make enemy AoO's trivial to avoid without losing an action. At best, Shove should be a bonus action for fighters.

Held actions are part of the reaction system - and a more complicated part at that, so they're probably not in because that system is unfinished.

The Dodge action is coming.

[Tungsten]

You got to understand that this was made as a product to appeal to everyone, In game design you can choose to be super faithful to the ideas and rules from a certain thing, or you can make a few changes to make it a bit easier for the players who are not very good at said thing.

Say a DM knows he is playing with a set of new players or just doing a one off for fun, they could homebrew certain abilities to be used as Bonus actions or usable to all. This game is a homebrew of Baldur's Gate, so take it as that a homebrew of a campaign because not everyone plays DND or has experience with DND.

[Indure]

Originalmente postado por Kanjimaru:

You got to understand that this was made as a product to appeal to everyone, In game design you can choose to be super faithful to the ideas and rules from a certain thing, or you can make a few changes to make it a bit easier for the players who are not very good at said thing.

Say a DM knows he is playing with a set of new players or just doing a one off for fun, they could homebrew certain abilities to be used as Bonus actions or usable to all. This game is a homebrew of Baldur's Gate, so take it as that a homebrew of a campaign because not everyone plays DND or has experience with DND.

I don't think people are arguing because it isn't faithful to the source material, but rather having powerful movement options available as bonus options is to OP and negates the value of certain classes, feats and spells.

All classes generally have something they can do to escape or survive in melee already built into the class. Fighters generally don't need to disengage, rogues get it as a bonus action perk, clerics have higher AC and shields to tank hits, and wizards get spells like shocking grasp and misty step specifically to escape scenarios like this.

[Bob Loblaw]

Originalmente postado por Kanjimaru:

You got to understand that this was made as a product to appeal to everyone, In game design you can choose to be super faithful to the ideas and rules from a certain thing, or you can make a few changes to make it a bit easier for the players who are not very good at said thing.

Say a DM knows he is playing with a set of new players or just doing a one off for fun, they could homebrew certain abilities to be used as Bonus actions or usable to all. This game is a homebrew of Baldur's Gate, so take it as that a homebrew of a campaign because not everyone plays DND or has experience with DND.

I absolutely understand this, the discussion is asking for peoples opinions.

[Oncus]

Giving everyone a chance to disengage for a bonus action is nonsensical. Some classes that rely on having a bonus action to work optimally (like the monk) are getting screwed. In D&D positioning really matters, and making sure you don't get stuck in melee as ranged or a mage is all part of the tactical decision making. I do hope the full version does not have this mechanic.

[Space Dog]

They made Shove and the disengage / backstab Jump and magic food a bonus action, so that players would have more things to do during their turn.

I don't need two things to do every turn. It's much more important that combat flows well. They should speed up the AI thinking instead. The downtime between turns is the problem, not a lack of actions.

The bonus shove, jump and eat don't make the game any better or more fun. They're just silly nonsense that messes up the class balance.

[Elminster]

Originalmente postado por Oncus:

Giving everyone a chance to disengage for a bonus action is nonsensical. Some classes that rely on having a bonus action to work optimally (like the monk) are getting screwed. In D&D positioning really matters, and making sure you don't get stuck in melee as ranged or a mage is all part of the tactical decision making. I do hope the full version does not have this mechanic.

They basically made cunning action obsolete and removed one of biggest reason to roll a rogue

[lejes]

I think they should stick to D&D 5E ruleset. Period.

[Rhyno]

It's silly that disengage and jump are the same action. Particularly when you can see other creatures, like goblins, have a proper disengage action.