Why have they slaughtered my Firebolt

[blackbeard133]

It just seems strange to me that they would make Firebolt a 1d6 instead of a 1d10 like it is in 5e, but they would keep the damage die for basically every other cantrip as far as I can tell. Firebolt is the wizards generalist bread and butter, and without the ability to hit sweet 10s I think that its pretty hard to justify playing a wizard. Also, some general things don't seem great, like how since every weapon has a special move the role of the Battlemaster gets invalidated somewhat.

[Slapstick]

Messaggio originale di Sniperfox47:

Messaggio originale di Slapstick:

Unless he's already on fire, then it's a straight damage nerf.

Then umm... hit a different target because he's probably dead anyways? Why are you hitting a target with fire once they're already on fire, you wanna spread that DoT around.

No I want to kill him with my 1d10 cantrip

[Sniperfox47]

Messaggio originale di Slapstick:

Messaggio originale di Sniperfox47:

Then umm... hit a different target because he's probably dead anyways? Why are you hitting a target with fire once they're already on fire, you wanna spread that DoT around.

No I want to kill him with my 1d10 cantrip

If you're going to kill him with a 1d10 cantrip then you're going to kill him with a 1d6 plus fire... because 1d6 plus fire is more damage... What are you even on about?

[blackbeard133]

I do want to say to everyone commenting that it does an additional 1d4 burn damage, is that the burn is not gaurenteed, which adds to the crux of my argument in that the spell is less reliable which is what the early game wizard needs. Typically firebolt deals 1-10 damage, now it sometimes deals 1-6 or 2-10, which I suppose could be better, but I don't have any knowledge on the chance to burn.

Furthermore, since we are talking about environmental, I would say that since enemies can be wet or damp, the extra 1d4 from a 1 turn burn is further lessened in usefulness since there are specific scenarios where in it is worse as the burn is not going to proc.

Overall, I see how it might be better as a 1d6+1d4, thats obvious, however as I was more concerned with firebolts role as a general, reliable, damage dealing cantrip, I remain skeptical.

[Trotzki's Strongest Soldier]

Fire bolt is kinda busted. Deals 1d6 fire damage, sets them on fire for another 1d4, and another 1d4 if they move while the fire surface is around them. Creates a surface for your frontliner to dip their weapon into for even more 1d4s.

[Dingess]

Statistically, without additional dice from wizard level, firebolt in BG3 does more damage than in D&D. If you did the math and included even the worst case utility, you'd realize that.

[Sniperfox47]

Messaggio originale di blackbeard133:

I do want to say to everyone commenting that it does an additional 1d4 burn damage, is that the burn is not gaurenteed, which adds to the crux of my argument in that the spell is less reliable which is what the early game wizard needs. Typically firebolt deals 1-10 damage, now it sometimes deals 1-6 or 2-10, which I suppose could be better, but I don't have any knowledge on the chance to burn.

Furthermore, since we are talking about environmental, I would say that since enemies can be wet or damp, the extra 1d4 from a 1 turn burn is further lessened in usefulness since there are specific scenarios where in it is worse as the burn is not going to proc.

Overall, I see how it might be better as a 1d6+1d4, thats obvious, however as I was more concerned with firebolts role as a general, reliable, damage dealing cantrip, I remain skeptical.

What do you mean the burn is not guaranteed? If they're not standing in blood or water it spawns a fire surface that procs 1d4 fire on them. Every time. Are you maybe shooting enemies standing in their own blood?

Not sure what you mean about the environmental damage. If you mean the additional 1d4 fire surface when they move that's just extra sprinkles on top, not related to then burning. If you mean the burning itself then yeah if you shoot people standing in water that's dumb. But how often are all your targets standing in puddles? I mean unless you're 1 wizard in a party of 3 fighters then yeah you should probably take a different spell since the enemies will all be in puddles. Of their own blood.

If you want a general reliable damage dealing cantrip take Eldritch Blast or Chill Touch. Too many things resist fire damage for it to be reliable.

[Knucklehead]

Messaggio originale di Slapstick:

Messaggio originale di Sniperfox47:

Then umm... hit a different target because he's probably dead anyways? Why are you hitting a target with fire once they're already on fire, you wanna spread that DoT around.

No I want to kill him with my 1d10 cantrip

Roll a warlock?

[Archsorcerer]

Don't forget that cantrips get more strong with level up

Lvl 1-4: 1 dice
Lvl 5-10: 2 dices
Lvl 11-16: 3 dices
Lvl 17-20: 4 dices

So, 4d10 > 4d6 + 1d4.

We need to think about not just the four levels of the EA.

[Sniperfox47]

Messaggio originale di Wotan:

Don't forget that cantrips get more strong with level up

Lvl 1-4: 1 dice
Lvl 5-10: 2 dices
Lvl 11-16: 3 dices
Lvl 17-20: 4 dices

So, 4d10 > 4d6 + 1d4.

We need to think about not just the four levels of the EA.

Unless the 1d4 also scales to 4d4... We don't know yet as level 5 (and thus the first cantrip scaling) does not yet exist.

[[TG] zac]

Messaggio originale di Shadow:

It might be it has greater utility aside from pure damage, with the bigger focus on environmental effects, i.e. synergy effects with acid splash and such. In the pnp rules, the other cantrips have secondary effects, while firebolt is mostly "just" the damage (it can light objects on fire, but not people).

Maybe not directly but I often play with an alchemist or just someone who has been grabbing lots of strong grog/oil. (bonus points if we have a cleric who can bless oil/alcohol before hand)

At least on table top

[RJM]

Everybody talks as if the 1d4 is guaranteed. It's not guaranteed to burn the target and it's not guaranteed to create a fire surface.

It's good sense in any edition of D&D to pick on one target at a time rather than chipping health off several of them and leaving them all alive to act on their turn. If they're pinned with an arrow or backstabbed, there's a blood surface. That isn't going to ignite.

Meanwhile, if an enemy misses you with a firebolt it can still ignite the floor and still ignite you. 2d4 damage on a miss and up to 2d4+1d6 on a hit is busted in the other direction.

I love the ignition concept, but the spell could easily do 1d10 (2d10, 3d10 etc at higher level) and ignite any flammable surface under you without itself creating surfaces or setting you on fire.

[Archsorcerer]

Messaggio originale di Sniperfox47:

Messaggio originale di Wotan:

Don't forget that cantrips get more strong with level up

Lvl 1-4: 1 dice
Lvl 5-10: 2 dices
Lvl 11-16: 3 dices
Lvl 17-20: 4 dices

So, 4d10 > 4d6 + 1d4.

We need to think about not just the four levels of the EA.

Unless the 1d4 also scales to 4d4... We don't know yet as level 5 (and thus the first cantrip scaling) does not yet exist.

Yep. But we need to keep that in mind or it would be a critical nerf.

[Milkie]

Because it ignites people for 1d4 damage per round pretty consistently on hit.

[Akulvo]

I noticed that even if fire bolt misses, it will create a fire area under the target and still deal damage. So while the base fire bolt deals 1d6 damage, it will also deal 1d4 damage underneath them most of the time.

[HTakara]

because it's a cantrip now.