Shadowheart stat distribution worse than ever. Reasoning and proposed fix!

[Shinn]

So clerics are one of the most versatile classes in 5e due to the fact that the many different domains offer different proficiencies and bonuses. This means that there is no one stat distribution that works for all clerics. Trickster clerics such as shadowheart ar proficient with medium armor and simple weapons. This means that her best melee weapon that she has access to is the mace which is 1d6+str or if you look at the PHB (player's handbook 5e) the spear which can be used one handed in 5e which also does 1d6+str. If we look at Shadowhearts DPR (damage per round) with her different options in the current build this is what we get. Ranked from worst (top) to best (bottom).

Mace: 1d6+0 (3.5 dpr)
Sacred Flame: 1d8 (4.5 dpr)
Dagger: 1d4+2 (4.5 dpr)
Light Crossbow: 1d8+2 (6.5 dpr)

I very much doubt that the intention of this change was to make daggers better for Shadowheart than the mace. The following will show Shadowheart't current stats (including her racial bonus) in the new patch (left) with my proposed stats for her (right)

STR 10 (14)
DEX 15 (14)
CON 13 (13)
INT 8 (8)
WIS 16 (16)
CHA 14 (10)

This fixes a few problems. First of all any points in dexterity past 14 is just a waste since she is limited to medium armor she should maintain a +2 modifier in her dexterity. I've dropped her charisma from 14 to 10 since, lets be honest, she is not charismatic. Also she gains no real benifit to having a higher charisma. She isn't proficient in any charisma based abilities and shes also not your main character at the moment so you probably aren't spearheading conversation checks with her. Now lastly we can drop those points we removed into strength and bring her back to a hearty +2 modifier. Giving her jump distance, carrying capacity, and her decent mace attack back, along with the ability to pick up heavy armor proficiency later from a feat.

Its very important for Shadowheart to have a decent melee ability. My reasoning for this is that in the PHB, trickery domain clerics get an ability at level 8 called Divine Strike. This ability gives the cleric an extra 1d8 poison damage on their attacks with a melee weapon. This is assuming of course that this ability stays the same when implemented into BG3.

Two other solutions I have to this problem include having a "Respec" ability similar to the mirror in DOS2. Or secondly in the very least allow companions to be customized when they are recruited.

[Relsh]

ew...her new stats in this patch are awful....guess she remains a finesse/ranged character

[Brady4444]

Allowing companions to be customizable would be wonderful in my opinion. I usually don't like premade characters in most games because of wonky stats/feats.

That said, I would understand if Larian wanted to have their 'main' stats not be changed. Like str for fighters, int for mages, and so on. I would very much make Wyll a deadly force with his rapier and his Eldritch Blast.

[Shinn]

Originally posted by Relsh:

ew...her new stats in this patch are awful....guess she remains a finesse/ranged character

It wouldn't be so bad if she was proficient with martial weapons and could swing a rapier. in fact one of the more popular cleric builds currently is a dex based light cleric but they get short sword and longbow proficiency from wood elf so dumping strength actually works.

Originally posted by Brady4444:

Allowing companions to be customizable would be wonderful in my opinion. I usually don't like premade characters in most games because of wonky stats/feats.

That said, I would understand if Larian wanted to have their 'main' stats not be changed. Like str for fighters, int for mages, and so on. I would very much make Wyll a deadly force with his rapier and his Eldritch Blast.

being able to customize your companions would be a great thing. Another stat change they made this patch was giving rogues/Astarion more inteligence, which is great if you wanted to try an arcane trickster build but if you didn't then its just more wasted stats. the inability to customize your companions is quite stifling.

[Siegdarth]

Dude. She is a priest of the Trickery domain that worships Shar.
It makes more sense she being dexterous/wise/charismatic than having high STR. She doesn't have any proficiency in athletics to make use of STR.
Just give her a Shortsword/Shield or get weapon master feat and give her a scimitar and enjoy the character.

Dex is not only for AC but also for saves, initiative and ability tests.
Chain Shirt does'nt give disvantage on sneaking so you can better position her or enter stealth before or during a fight.
I'm toally ok for her ranged and sneaky nature since most buff requires concentration and the cleric hp is not that great anyway,

[Shinn]

Originally posted by Siegdarth:

Dude. She is a priest of the Trickery domain that worships Shar.
It makes more sense she being dexterous/wise/charismatic than having high STR. She doesn't have any proficiency in athletics to make use of STR.
Just give her a Shortsword/Shield or get weapon master feat and give her a scimitar and enjoy the character.

I would be glad to give her a shortsword and romp through the game but she doesn't get proficiency in them. Literally the only simple weapon that is also finesse is the dagger.

[Siegdarth]

Originally posted by Shinn Ryusei:

Originally posted by Siegdarth:

Dude. She is a priest of the Trickery domain that worships Shar.
It makes more sense she being dexterous/wise/charismatic than having high STR. She doesn't have any proficiency in athletics to make use of STR.
Just give her a Shortsword/Shield or get weapon master feat and give her a scimitar and enjoy the character.

I would be glad to give her a shortsword and romp through the game but she doesn't get proficiency in them. Literally the only simple weapon that is also finesse is the dagger.

Yep, forgot that shortswords are also martial. Sadly you will need to spend a feat go allow her to use martial weapons =/.
Anyway, i use her more like a rogue than a frontline fighter.

[GRRz|Snake]

She's the weakest of my team oof , while Gale and my custom (zariel tiefling) fighter destroys everyone...

I'm thinking of replacing her with Wyll.... but i don't know yet if will need/miss her heals/buffs...or i will be good with just potions...

[Siegdarth]

Originally posted by GRRz|Snake:

She's the weakest of my team oof , while Gale and my custom (zariel tiefling) fighter destroys everyone...

I'm thinking of replacing her with Wyll.... but i don't know yet if will need/miss her heals...or i will be good with just potions...

If you have her just for the healings you won't miss her that much, potions can be a bit expensive in the long run. But clerics are about buffing/removing debuffs and not for dealing damage or big healing,

The shield of faith/resistance/guidance/bless and a few others are a game change if well used.

[BirdDinosaur]

players sometimes forget that characters don’t always have/want/need the best stats for their class or character... it’s called roleplaying for a reason

[Shinn]

Originally posted by Siegdarth:

Originally posted by Shinn Ryusei:

I would be glad to give her a shortsword and romp through the game but she doesn't get proficiency in them. Literally the only simple weapon that is also finesse is the dagger.

Yep, forgot that shortswords are also martial. Sadly you will need to spend a feat go allow her to use martial weapons =/.
Anyway, i use her more like a rogue than a frontline fighter.

Our difference in opinion on how the character should be played just proves even more that we should be able to customize their ability scores to fit the role we want for them.

Originally posted by Pochusaurus:

players sometimes forget that characters don’t always have/want/need the best stats for their class or character... it’s called roleplaying for a reason

If we were sitting at a table playing actual dnd i would agree with you 100%, but we arent are we? if I find it fun to powergame in my single player game I should be free to do so.

[Razorblade]

Originally posted by Pochusaurus:

players sometimes forget that characters don’t always have/want/need the best stats for their class or character... it’s called roleplaying for a reason

Alright, let's say we're roleplaying. If Shadowheart is some kind of master of dexterity like her stats suggest, shouldn't she start with a dagger? Realistically, Shadowheart's gotta know she can't wield a mace worth a crap, and would pick her weapon more accordingly. Isn't her Charisma a little too high as well? I enjoy her snark, but I don't think it's winning her any friends, and she doesn't seem like someone that tries to persuade her way out of problems.

OP's post isn't a matter of min-maxing (no min-maxer would mix Strength and Dex in equal measure), it's a matter of Shadowheart's stats being nonsensical for her character. OP suggested a build that is much more roleplay-friendly.

[Draconiya]

Originally posted by Siegdarth:

Dude. She is a priest of the Trickery domain that worships Shar.
It makes more sense she being dexterous/wise/charismatic than having high STR. She doesn't have any proficiency in athletics to make use of STR.
Just give her a Shortsword/Shield or get weapon master feat and give her a scimitar and enjoy the character.

Dex is not only for AC but also for saves, initiative and ability tests.
Chain Shirt does'nt give disvantage on sneaking so you can better position her or enter stealth before or during a fight.
I'm toally ok for her ranged and sneaky nature since most buff requires concentration and the cleric hp is not that great anyway,

Precisely. If you're slapping things in melee with your trickery cleric you're doing it wrong.

And high charisma can mean deceptiveness just as easily as personability.

[bullse]

I like the idea of a respec later on in a future Act 2 perhaps, like in DOS2, but as for what stats Shadowheart has or should have, I can care less. I play primarily solo (lonewolf in DOS2) and I kill her off cause she is so frakin' annoying, just grates my nerves to no end.

[Shinn]

Originally posted by Draconiya:

Originally posted by Siegdarth:

Dude. She is a priest of the Trickery domain that worships Shar.
It makes more sense she being dexterous/wise/charismatic than having high STR. She doesn't have any proficiency in athletics to make use of STR.
Just give her a Shortsword/Shield or get weapon master feat and give her a scimitar and enjoy the character.

Dex is not only for AC but also for saves, initiative and ability tests.
Chain Shirt does'nt give disvantage on sneaking so you can better position her or enter stealth before or during a fight.
I'm toally ok for her ranged and sneaky nature since most buff requires concentration and the cleric hp is not that great anyway,

Precisely. If you're slapping things in melee with your trickery cleric you're doing it wrong.

And high charisma can mean deceptiveness just as easily as personability.

well there is a lot wrong with your suggestion from an optimization standpoint. the dexterity softcap for trickery cleric is 14 since you should be wearing medium armor to get the most out of your AC. the best ranged weapon that shadowheart can use is a light crossbow, which does actually have respectable damage with a +2 modifier. Once you hit level 5 your damage would be outpaced by sacred flame since clerics don't get extra attack, then at level 8 trickery clerics actually get bonus poison damage to melee weapon attacks. at level 8 your best damage per round without using spell slots actually comes from hitting things with a 1d6+str melee weapon.

[bullse]

Sacred flame (DEX save) is highly dubious, as well as just unreliable in my solo cleric (Light and Trickery) playthroughs. Most things in Act 1 have decent enough DEX that Sacred Flame becomes secondary to just doing a normal offensive weapon attack as your go-to. Use Guiding Bolt and Inflict Wounds, both hit like a truck when they land successfully.