Why bother with Heavy Armor?

[ioci]

So far, I see no reason to wear a Heavy Armor as long as a character has 10 or more Dex. Shouldn't other armor types have lower AC by default? Seeing Robe having 10 AC while a basic heavy armor was only 4 points AC better confuses me a lot.

[ayrtep]

I have not seen any heavy armour in the game so its doubt its a big issue. But as I see it the main point of heavy armour is if you don't want to spend points in dexterity, but put them somewhere else.

With heavy armour you can have bad dex without loss of AC.

[ioci]

Escrito originalmente por ayrtep:

I have not seen any heavy armour so its doubt its a big issue. But as I see it the main point of heavy armour is if you don't want to spend points in dexterity, but put them somewhere else.

With heavy armour you can have bad dex without loss of AC.

There is a purple heavy armor in the game. 14 AC. Its the same one Minthara wears and can be looted somewhere else.

[Slythe]

As things stand in the game at the moment there is no point to bothering with heavy armour.

If you have a dex of at least 14 you are better off with medium armour and (if you have no fashion sense or just like embedded rubies in your armour) you have access to the best medium armour right from the beginning of the game by stealing Lae'zel's set giving you a base AC of 17 without any additions such as a shield. Even if you have a dex of less than 14 Lae'zels armour is still the better option.

There are only two sets of heavy armour in the game right now; the basic ringmail which gives you a base AC of 14 and the difficult to aquire chainmail with a base AC of 16.

My assumption is that additional types of heavy armour will be added in future updates so this will eventually change. None the less at the moment a classic high STR/high CON fighter with low DEX is a bit... uh.... not a good option right now.

[Something completely different]

Escrito originalmente por Graygan:

All of which makes level 1 Mage Armor one of the most overpowered and "required" spells in 5e.

Same goes for Shield of Faith with divine casters.

Why? Because you get 15 ac if you have 14 dex? That's still lower then about everyone else in the party who wears medium or heavy armour.

Shield of faith would be overpowered if it wasn't concentration. You cast that? Then no bless and I consider bless a far better spell then either of those you named.

[Indure]

At this point in the game, strength weapons are far stronger than dex weapons. So having a high str character is worth it over a high dex character.

[Malus]

Escrito originalmente por Indure:

At this point in the game, strength weapons are far stronger than dex weapons. So having a high str character is worth it over a high dex character.

AC wise DEX is king. At this point with out any decent heavy armor not specing into both as a fighter is a huge negative.

[Slythe]

Escrito originalmente por Indure:

At this point in the game, strength weapons are far stronger than dex weapons. So having a high str character is worth it over a high dex character.

Respectfully I disagee; in the early game going high dex while duel-wielding a couple of short swords is perfectly respectable damage-wise and also gives you the addition of being good at range combat as well.

Later on, when you reach level 4, you can get the feat of duel wielding which allows you to duel wield with any 1-handed weapon, not just light ones. This makes it a bit more complex as you need to find two dex-based 1d8 damage rapiers to equal the damage output of two str-based 1d8 damage 1 handed weapons and rapiers are fairly rare. This feat also gives you an extra +1 to AC while duel wielding.

There is also the issue that being a lot tougher (AC and HP wise) to try to tank the damage doesn't really work as most enemies will ignore the toughest party member to focus on the weakest. This makes sense but it does make the tank-role redundant and damage-output matters a lot more than damage-resistance.

[Malus]

Escrito originalmente por AKM:

Escrito originalmente por Indure:

At this point in the game, strength weapons are far stronger than dex weapons. So having a high str character is worth it over a high dex character.

Respectfully I disagee; in the early game going high dex while duel-wielding a couple of short swords is perfectly respectable damage-wise and also gives you the addition of being good at range combat as well.

Later on, when you reach level 4, you can get the feat of duel wielding which allows you to duel wield with any 1-handed weapon, not just light ones. This makes it a bit more complex as you need to find two dex-based 1d8 damage rapiers to equal the damage output of two str-based 1d8 damage 1 handed weapons and rapiers are fairly rare. This feat also gives you an extra +1 to AC while duel wielding.

There is also the issue that being a lot tougher (AC and HP wise) to try to tank the damage doesn't really work as most enemies will ignore the toughest party member to focus on the weakest. This makes sense but it does make the tank-role redundant and damage-output matters a lot more than damage-resistance.

Indure is right about weapons though. The best one handed magic weapons are not finesse weapons.

So with the feat you still need decent str.

Right now you need STR and DEX.

[Slythe]

Escrito originalmente por Malus:

Indure is right about weapons though. The best one handed magic weapons are not finesse weapons.

So with the feat you still need decent str.

Right now you need STR and DEX.

I have seen at least one +1 rapier and +1 short-swords but fair comment I can't disagree that there are far more non-finesse than finesse weapons.

[Indure]

Escrito originalmente por AKM:

Escrito originalmente por Indure:

At this point in the game, strength weapons are far stronger than dex weapons. So having a high str character is worth it over a high dex character.

Respectfully I disagee; in the early game going high dex while duel-wielding a couple of short swords is perfectly respectable damage-wise and also gives you the addition of being good at range combat as well.

Later on, when you reach level 4, you can get the feat of duel wielding which allows you to duel wield with any 1-handed weapon, not just light ones. This makes it a bit more complex as you need to find two dex-based 1d8 damage rapiers to equal the damage output of two str-based 1d8 damage 1 handed weapons and rapiers are fairly rare. This feat also gives you an extra +1 to AC while duel wielding.

There is also the issue that being a lot tougher (AC and HP wise) to try to tank the damage doesn't really work as most enemies will ignore the toughest party member to focus on the weakest. This makes sense but it does make the tank-role redundant and damage-output matters a lot more than damage-resistance.

There are two overarching damage builds:

Two-handed weapon build; which only exists for strength characters. You have a good assortment of weapons and you get the amazing Sword of Justice early in act 1, which is one of the best weapons in the game. That greatsword also basically gives you +2AC, so your armor deficiency (due to lack of heavy armor in EA) is negated. Later on you can upgrade to the Light of Creation.

Dual wielding build; works perfectly fine with dual shortswords prior to level 3, but the only magic shortswords are +1 early game. A strength build can dual-weld handaxes for the same damage and get the Dragon's Grasp (vendor at druid grove) that does bonus fire damage. At level 4, with the feat, strength leaves dexterity in the dust due to in-game weapon options. Dex has +1 Rapiers, vs the assortment of extremely strong maces/war-hammers that exist for strength builds. The Shattered Flail is very strong as an offhand weapon due to its increase chance to hit and if it is still is bugged applying the 1d6 heal to both attacks.

The value of dex is the ability to use a range weapon when they can't reach an opponent and the slightly higher AC due to lack of heavy armor prior to level 4. Strength gets slightly better mobility and speed due to a stronger jump to make up for their lack of range options.

[MrGiggles7]

Escrito originalmente por Indure:

Escrito originalmente por AKM:

Respectfully I disagee; in the early game going high dex while duel-wielding a couple of short swords is perfectly respectable damage-wise and also gives you the addition of being good at range combat as well.

Later on, when you reach level 4, you can get the feat of duel wielding which allows you to duel wield with any 1-handed weapon, not just light ones. This makes it a bit more complex as you need to find two dex-based 1d8 damage rapiers to equal the damage output of two str-based 1d8 damage 1 handed weapons and rapiers are fairly rare. This feat also gives you an extra +1 to AC while duel wielding.

There is also the issue that being a lot tougher (AC and HP wise) to try to tank the damage doesn't really work as most enemies will ignore the toughest party member to focus on the weakest. This makes sense but it does make the tank-role redundant and damage-output matters a lot more than damage-resistance.

There are two overarching damage builds:

Two-handed weapon build; which only exists for strength characters. You have a good assortment of weapons and you get the amazing Sword of Justice early in act 1, which is one of the best weapons in the game. That greatsword also basically gives you +2AC, so your armor deficiency (due to lack of heavy armor in EA) is negated. Later on you can upgrade to the Light of Creation.

Dual wielding build; works perfectly fine with dual shortswords prior to level 3, but the only magic shortswords are +1 early game. A strength build can dual-weld handaxes for the same damage and get the Dragon's Grasp (vendor at druid grove) that does bonus fire damage. At level 4, with the feat, strength leaves dexterity in the dust due to in-game weapon options. Dex has +1 Rapiers, vs the assortment of extremely strong maces/war-hammers that exist for strength builds. The Shattered Flail is very strong as an offhand weapon due to its increase chance to hit and if it is still is bugged applying the 1d6 heal to both attacks.

The value of dex is the ability to use a range weapon when they can't reach an opponent and the slightly higher AC due to lack of heavy armor prior to level 4. Strength gets slightly better mobility and speed due to a stronger jump to make up for their lack of range options.

My STR base char can just throw from range, swords, axes, potions, books, shoes, people, squirrels, sausages ...

[zpc]

For me it is kind of a no-brainer. I always use heavy armors in cRPGs. The heavier the better. While I do know that certain mechanics exist for squishies to exceed heavy armor ACs I just "feel" saver with most of my party being outfitted with non-removable, non-dispellable, solid AC. I don't like to have those squishy mages around when being "suprised" and having no chance to buff em up. Of course, meta-gaming will drastically reduce the chance of being surprised by combats..

That's also why I enjoy the eldritch knight build(s). Or better yet: the abjuration wizard multiclassed after some fighter levels to get that extra layer of protection while wearing heavy armor. And it also explains my obsession with clerics :D.

Last but not least - I do like the looks of heavy armors more then robes or leather armors.

[Malus]

Items were very different when this was first posted.

[teksuo]

i like it on my low dex light cleric but thats about it.

[Mormacil]

Because not every point in AC matters equally. Going from 14 to 18 AC matters a lot more than going from 10 to 14 AC. Despite both seeming a jump of 4 points the chances in getting hit change dramatically. The way AC is calculated and how few ways there are to boost it those 4 points matter a ton.