Larian is going to ruin it (Long post)

[Alleluja2000]

Ok, so here is unpopular opinion - D:OS games were great successors to Ultima series but were nothing like Infinity Engine games.
And here are my problems and issues with Larian making Baldur's Gate 3:

Writing - Larian NEVER made a good written games. Only Divine Divinity and to some extent Beyond Divinity were more mature stories. Rest of the games... all of them... had subpar writing and filled with humour and tongue'in'cheek feeling.
Nothing wrong with that but I have my worries about sequel to one of the best written and paced RPGs of all time being made by a sudio with very poor track record in terms of writing.

Pre-made characters - So anyone who played D:OS2 knows that it came with bunch of pre-made characters with their own "origin" stories and ability to make character from scratch intead. Sounds cool? Well... It wasn't. Not only custom made characters suffered by fewer quests, worse voice acting, less connections to the world but also, those pre-made characters served as you companions. In short - Choosing to create your own charactes was punished by not having as much content as playing as one of the characters created by the devs. Now imagine Baldur's Gate 2 with that system... Forget creating your "own" Bhaalspawn... Instead you have to play as either Minsc or Jaheira or Jan Jansen etc. from their point of view...

COOP focused - Larian already confirmed COOP in BG3. Cool, first two games also had coop so nothing wrong with that as an option... AS AN OPTION. Again - D:OS2 singleplayer suffered a lot by having coop. It was already confirmed by RPS interview with Larian that now, instead of one BIG HERO, all party are heroes. Sooooo.... Forget about "new bhaalspawn", now entire team will be made out from heroes with equal awesomness etc. Why? I presume that because Larian will, once again, create Origin Characters like they did in D:OS2. So instead of creating custom party in order to play coop players will choose different companions and take their actions.
So once again... Imagine Minsc being not an awesome, cult classic NPC that joins you but might leave you if you are an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Nope, this time you can PLAY as him but also one of your mate can play as him. (Shallowing the experience of single player campaign)

Engine - this one is subjective af but after seeing how AMAZING PoE: Deadfire looks with hand painted 2d backgrounds I'd love to see this way of creating graphics but it's gonna be build on D:OS/D:OS2 engine instead. Again - HUGLY subjective, so that's just my taste.



Combat and stats - So yeah... Combat in D:OS games was awesome because it fit the world and it gave you abilities to "break the game" in various ways. But I expect NOTHING like that from D'n'D game. I want numbers and stats to matter, I want to spend 4h creating my character rather than choosing one, made by the devs. I want to find that one, special, amazing piece of armor/weapon at the end of this dungeon/quest with amazing stats and bonuses rather than having tons of ♥♥♥♥ items that have no lore, no good stats etc. (and MY LORD did D:OS games had terrible itemization)





Sorry for the long rant. I'll be downvoted to all seven hells but even tho I liked many franchises Baldur's Gate is the only one that I love. I'm 30, I've seen Fallout being shallowed by Bethesda, I've seen Neverwinter turned into MMO I've seen so many legendary franchises being dumb down with casual features thrown on them with hope to appeal to the masses.
The only time I've seen BG magic was with Pillars of Eternity but now, knowing that Larian is doing BG3... I'm just pesymistic about the future of my beloved franchise.

[Kuroodo]

"To save Baldur's Gate you'll need a party of heroes, and like a typical D&D party they're all the protagonists of their own stories, each with their own motivations and ambitions. When you make a character, you'll be filling in your character sheet, essentially, not just with abilities and skills, but backgrounds, personality traits and ideals. If you make a Mage, you'll be able to look at the last pages of your Players Handbook and find, for the most, exactly same spells. You'll have all the pieces you need to make a D&D adventurer.

While he's not ready to confirm that it will feature in Baldur's Gate 3, Vincke's also interested in taking another crack at Original Sin 2's origin system, which gives players premade characters with unique backgrounds, quests and talents. They're better defined than their custom counterparts, and more connected to the world. "

https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3-will-combine-the-best-of-divinity-and-dandd-5th-edition

[Alleluja2000]

Originally posted by Kuroodo:

While he's not ready to confirm that it will feature in Baldur's Gate 3, Vincke's also interested in taking another crack at Original Sin 2's origin system, which gives players premade characters with unique backgrounds, quests and talents. They're better defined than their custom counterparts, and more connected to the world. "

https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3-will-combine-the-best-of-divinity-and-dandd-5th-edition

But that's terrible new IMO. The entire point of Bhallspawn in BG saga was the fact that he/she was a vessel - For You, the player. Pre-made characters in D:OS2 had their own moods, characters, traits etc. So instead of playing "you" you were playing someone else. It's great for games like Witcher but for Baldur's Gate? Hell no!

Larian was always playing it safe. You could never ruin your build in D:OS. Your companions would never leave and idea of "drop in/drop out" coop had huge affect on singleplayer. Now see how awesome Pillars of Eternity did it. Not only it was made by Josh freakin Sawyer who worked with Infinity Engine games but also game can be hard as nails.

[Morse]

Yeah I know its dumb that larian wants to evolutionize the CRPG genre instead of just making them literally the same as they've always been(cough obsidian cough).

Dude do you really think they're just gonna make OS3 and just put a forgotten realms skin over it? Of course not. Its a different franchise. Obviously there will be changes, the last one was made in 2000. Their is modernization to be had. and no, that IS NOT a bad thing.

I also really don't see how you can say their games are poorly writte, OS2 was one of the best written RPG's of the past 5 years. And the characters were fleshed out and interesting.

Also, about you being "punished" for making a custom character: I made a custom character in OS2, and It took absolutely NOTHING away from the game for me. Cause I could get the other characters stories by taking them with me in my campaign.

This reads like incredible nostalgia and a blind loyalty to the old games without knowing anything about the new one. Maybe hold off a bit mate

[Starcake]

I actually share some of your concern. I found the Origin characters a bad idea in DOS2. None of them were fun or interesting to me. I don't know, there is something in Larian's writting that just doesn't click with me. I can't take it seriously like I do in PoE for example. D:OS 1 had this problem, D:OS 2 improved but also had this problem. I could never see the Red Prince as someone important, for example. To me he was just some clown thinking he was something special instead of the prince of a proud reptilian race. I have a bad feeling about this and am very skeptical. I'll hope that they prove me deadly wrong, but my expectation is on the ground on that department.

I feel like some very polished and pretty product will be delivered like Larian always delivers, but then we'll have subpar writting which will kill the whole setting. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, mind you, but not using the name of something like BG. They should've just named it something else and made it based in Forgotten Realms. Naming something Baldur's Gate 3 is raising the expectation bar to the stars, and it'll be very, very difficult to reach that. Good luck to them creating an equally good or better villain than Irenicus.

[Alleluja2000]

Yup, agree 100%. They are stepping not just into Forgottern Realms but into the lord and worldbuilding of a 20yo franchise which is one of the best written and thought out stories in cRPG.
Now I know how Fallout fans felt when Bethesda took over the franchise...

[JC]

Originally posted by Alleluja2000:

Yup, agree 100%. They are stepping not just into Forgottern Realms but into the lord and worldbuilding of a 20yo franchise which is one of the best written and thought out stories in cRPG.
Now I know how Fallout fans felt when Bethesda took over the franchise...

How they took over and made some of the most popular games ever made? I'll never understand this. I get people don't like every game, But to basically deny that F3, New vegas, and F4 were some of the most popular sandbox games ever made is sorta mind blowing.


But hey I'll take wasteland 2, the others, and that includes blowing away F1 and 2.. Can't wait for w3, because all fallout did was disappoint and i never made it past 10-15 hours into any of them before i got bored and never played again.

[Stevey]

BG2 was pretty poorly written outside of a few bits.

[Sir Fondlebottom]

You summed up my thoughts on the matter perfectly, and then post number 2 followed up with my exact second reaction as well hah!

In the end I do not mind it, if only they put a lid on the constant cheap wackyness in the Original Sin games. It's not like they can damage the franchise with so many bad D&D games already having been made, and the stories in BG1 and 2 are self contained and finished. Thank ♥♥♥♥ Beamdog isn't doing it.

[Alleluja2000]

Originally posted by JC:

How they took over and made some of the most popular games ever made? I'll never understand this. I get people don't like every game, But to basically deny that F3, New vegas, and F4 were some of the most popular sandbox games ever made is sorta mind blowing.


But hey I'll take wasteland 2, the others, and that includes blowing away F1 and 2.. Can't wait for w3, because all fallout did was disappoint and i never made it past 10-15 hours into any of them before i got bored and never played again.

Popular =/= good. Fallout 4 was TERRIBLE RPG but I agree - F:NV was a freakin masterpiece. But that's actually further proof that Obsidian is the king of RPGs.

[Sangra69]

well I hope you can customize your character in this game. That is what D&D is all about. I understand in Divinity series using pre-made characters, but D&D isn't Divinity and hope they realize that.

[Kemosabe-TBC]

I don't understand the need some people have to speculate with almost zero information... Here is a simple and good algorithm that works for me:
1) Wait until the game is released
2) If you like it buy it
2) If you don't like it don't buy it

[ChewyBullets]

pessimism

A tendency to stress the negative or unfavorable or to take the gloomiest possible view.

[Scottx125]

Originally posted by ChewyBullets:

pessimism

A tendency to stress the negative or unfavorable or to take the gloomiest possible view.

Being a pessimist leaves you less disappointed with failure and surprised with success. Better than the alternative IMO.

[Kemosabe-TBC]

There are more alternatives besides being either a pessimist or an optimist. You can simply have no expectations at all. Let yourself be surprised.

[DogMeat]

In fairness, you don't have to worry about downvotes on Steam.

Just authoritarian mods from time to time.