The pacing of this game is very strange

[carp]

Some spoilers here for later-game plot elements.

It feels like I'll have weeks on end of nothing, and then story events will all get thrown at me all at once. Like, it felt like forever between when I opened up the first abandoned ruin and when I opened the second, but I got the third and fourth like immediately after one another.


And then there's the big problem: after the huge climax (which was indeed epic), the game just keeps going and going and going. Lots of dead time with nothing to do but a million commissions. There are a couple of combat missions, which were fun, but no new ruins (hazardous or abandoned) and so no feeling of "oo, I've opened up a new set of stuff for myself!"

And like, nothing I was doing felt BIG. Like, making Catori World should have felt like I was making a whole amusement park. There should have been way more beats to that plotline; way more to do. And reviving Mama Tree didn't feel like... anything. Just "We can't revive it," and then "build this thing, just like all the other million things you've built" and then "oh look, we revived it." (I hope at least Nia got her degree from saving the tree and it was her dissertation project or something, and she didn't just drop out of school to become a florist.)

And then on the very last mission everyone makes this huge deal about what a huge grand special deal this airship is, and then I just build it in a day like everything else and that's that.

Don't get me wrong: I really enjoyed the writing in this game (bizarre inundation of Simpsons references notwithstanding). When stuff was happening, it was great. But I feel like there's two big fixes that need to be made:

1. Reworking the plot events slightly so they're more evenly spread out (especially mid-game).

2. The third act just needs... way more. The handful of character quests were nice, but it was not enough. And the plot events themselves need more to them. And, most importantly, we need to keep improving longer. Once you get a factory, nothing's a challenge anymore. It's fun to feel powerful with that, but with this game, there really needed to be another level up to go. Chasing the next set of resources or tools is the real hook, and it was just gone.

[ruff1298]

I feel like Third Act was supposed to be that moment where you feel your hard work cresting the hill, and now you no longer have that pressure and can go ahead with all the other non-mandatory "plot" content. It's a great time to start a family, what with other NPCs doing exactly the same, especially since you unlock so much automation and hours of the day you could dedicate to spending all your gols, redecorating your house, or optimizing your builds.

[Smartik1]

Yea it feels weird. Some days I get like 6-8 blue markers in town to do stuff while other days there is nothing. You no longer get to help with event decorations, they just pop up overnight. When major developments like Catori World happen, the moment they announce it, 90% of the infrastructure pops up same day and the world is built by the next morning. It's completely unreal. I would have expected it to take longer with more contribution from my side. Don't tell me Mi-an built an entire amusement park with steel tracks and everything in an evening. Same with Elsie's "character development" where in the space of a weekend she suddenly matures, changes clothes, becomes a world renowned monster slayer and learns multiple animal languages. Like wtf you just left few days ago.

[carp]

Originally posted by Smartik1:

Yea it feels weird. Some days I get like 6-8 blue markers in town to do stuff while other days there is nothing. You no longer get to help with event decorations, they just pop up overnight.

Speaking of which, I did stumble into a nice little moment. Duvos is coming. We're all doomed, but we will make a final stand. I build my big air gun overnight for the terrible final showdown.

I wake up, and all of a sudden goofy happy music plays and cartoony letters pop up on my screen announcing: Hey, it's time for the dance-off!

[VeraelHasta]

Originally posted by carp:

Originally posted by Smartik1:

Yea it feels weird. Some days I get like 6-8 blue markers in town to do stuff while other days there is nothing. You no longer get to help with event decorations, they just pop up overnight.

Speaking of which, I did stumble into a nice little moment. Duvos is coming. We're all doomed, but we will make a final stand. I build my big air gun overnight for the terrible final showdown.

I wake up, and all of a sudden goofy happy music plays and cartoony letters pop up on my screen announcing: Hey, it's time for the dance-off!

Had the exact same thing happen to me. But before that I delayed fighting Duvos because I wanted to have a birthday party first xd

[JU1173]

I agree. The end game was a real slog to get through to finish. I was bored out of my mind. I found myself going to bed by noon just to move to the next day to see if there would be anything to do.

It's weird that the last 2 areas you open, the stuff you get there is hardly used at all on any projects. I used more of the stuff on commissions then I did building anything. It felt like it was a huge waste of time gathering the stuff I did.

I also expected the park and ship to be bigger projects, but no. Just slap a handful of parts together and done.

[VeraelHasta]

Yeah, it is weird how supposedly "big" late game projects only require like 10 plates and some planks.
It is probably like this to keep the game chill, but feels really weird when they ask you to create this big expensive thing... and you could make 30 of them with what you have in storage.

[rinofwater]

It does feel like a sudden difficulty dip from a gameplay perspective, and I think that's what bothers me about the later-game stuff, more than anything? For the first two acts, you have to be deliberate in staying on top of your resource management or you're going to fall behind, it adds an inherent structure to the day-to-day grind and drives the gameplay loop. By the time I got to Act 3, my machines were mostly just sitting there, I had more crap stocked up than I would ever be able to use at that point, I didn't really need water anymore so by the time that water generator's found and adapted for the town's infrastructure the new benefits that was supposed to provide didn't really matter because...I'm not using any (it means I can more easily afford to get cheeky with plant landscaping around my workshop if I want, but that's about it). After a certain point, I'm just running to throw stuff on the assembly station just to go run right back to turn it in, going to sleep at like 9 or 10 in the morning to advance plot points, and just doing the same thing again the next day. We're already in a lower-stakes part of the game, which is fine, but just because things aren't quite so dangerous anymore doesn't mean they have to stop being labor-intensive, right?

It gets even more dull if you throw a kid into the mix, too, because now I feel tethered to home in case the kid needs anything and it makes it even LESS likely I'm going to go out and gather resources or explore the new areas. Yes your spouse will come running and take care of them if you're not available to do so, but now you're missing out on a lot of extra friendship points with the baby and even at risk of losing points if they have to wait too long to be tended to. If there was like an official handoff of "hey can you watch the baby for a bit while I go take care of this thing" I don't think that much would feel quite so punishing, and keeping more deliberate track of your kid like that could add an extra level of management to keep things interesting in the later game (especially if you could do more with your baby than just tend their basic needs and then...watch them. I haven't gotten a kid past the crawling stage yet so maybe there's more to it when they get older, but so far it's been an in-game season and a half of watching a potato do a whole lot of nothing lol). But as it is, when the work to do takes an in-game hour to complete for the day anyway and there's no reason to risk the relationship loss with the kid being the only dynamic part of the game left...why bother? It's just another disincentive

Overall, I can get things chilling out a bit as everything starts coming together in the end, but I would love to be given more of a reason to keep engaging with the core gameplay loop than just feeling like I'm trying to rush through to the end to say I finished it

[I'm scared of Toasters]

I agree with everything you guys said so far, I love the game overall but some things with the story are so bizare to me I just keep thinking "who approved of this?". Catori World comes out of nowhere, she was a broke failure and becomes an entrepreneur overnight. Did they switch her for an evil twin that's actually capable?

And then the park builds itself overnight without any need for us. Why are we a builder then? I feel more like a carpenter at this point. Heidi and her company does all actual building. We should be the one's that need to get like 200 wooden boards, 100 stone bricks etc and then assemble the school on place. Same with Catori World, just the entrance should have required me to have at least 200 bricks, 400 hardwood plants, 100 bronze pipes etc. It's supposed to be this game ending massive project and it feels literally no different than me building a few benches in the town with Mi-an at the start of the game.

What's the point of Catori World even existing then? I hate things like that, that are story relevant but turn out to be just flavour and have no actual relevancy. It's like copper in Minecraft. Literally useless. What's the point of having all this massive amounts of resources in the end game?

Another thing that bothers me beyond belief is the lack of regard everybody seem to have for the monsters. The way to Catori World goes along the train tracks and through the hyenas habitat yet we are never told to build any sort of road or stairs to get there and the monsters stay on the way. So I guess the tourists must get weapons and fight for their lives to get to the canyon, then hope they don't trip on the very steep terrain and only then they can get in? Is it like mandatory test to see if you are manly enough to even be allowed inside the park? It's so bizzare to me.

And it's the same with the buss to Portia. Outside of the tunnel it never get's a proper road. You're telling me the buss is riding uphill to us on that very steep and thin sand hill path? And then back down? Am I supposed to pretend that it wouldn't just crash and roll down straight into the canyon? And then there are snakes on the way to the tunnel too. It may be seen as minor but the saying "the devil is in the details" exist for a reason. It's the attention to details that differentiates the games that feel alive and the games that feel artificial. As much as I love Sandrock it definitely belongs in the artificial basket.

Also, this is a nitpick but with how much money we make I wish during the quest with the kiln for Amirah I could just tell her "I'm rich, what do I need that 3k for? Keep the small change."

[carp]

Originally posted by I'm scared of toasters:

I agree with everything you guys said so far, I love the game overall but some things with the story are so bizare to me I just keep thinking "who approved of this?". Catori World comes out of nowhere, she was a broke failure and becomes an entrepreneur overnight. Did they switch her for an evil twin that's actually capable?

They address this in the most frustrating way: she casually explains that her Sandrunning business has been going great. Which... like, no it hasn't. There aren't any tourists. (Also sandrunning is a frustrating nightmare.) But they needed a quick throwaway line to justify where they were, and by gum they wrote one.

Catori World is actually a great symbol for the entire third act: huge and mostly empty space with nothing to do. I've got to believe they do have plans to put actual minigames there eventually, but man, it's sure depressing to wander around there now. And... I'm pretty sure there aren't any pileimps or masked fiends in the game anymore, which means there's just impossible civil corps bounties just sitting there as traps?


I can't believe I didn't put it together before, but the problem here is obvious: This is what happens when you build a game piece by piece, ad hoc, based on feedback from early access. I bet the pacing made WAY more sense if you were playing along back then, waiting a while for them to finish the next big step.

And, like, clearly there is way more the developers plan to put into the game. Like, there's an unusable sand fishing hole just sitting there. Two of the hazardous ruins don't even have third levels! The bus terminal is the Most Important Building In Town, and it's an empty box where nothing happens. I have to believe more is planned. I just hope they add ENOUGH. Because boy that third act is empty.

[I'm scared of Toasters]

Originally posted by carp:

They address this in the most frustrating way: she casually explains that her Sandrunning business has been going great. Which... like, no it hasn't. There aren't any tourists. (Also sandrunning is a frustrating nightmare.) But they needed a quick throwaway line to justify where they were, and by gum they wrote one.

Catori World is actually a great symbol for the entire third act: huge and mostly empty space with nothing to do. I've got to believe they do have plans to put actual minigames there eventually, but man, it's sure depressing to wander around there now. And... I'm pretty sure there aren't any pileimps or masked fiends in the game anymore, which means there's just impossible civil corps bounties just sitting there as traps?


I can't believe I didn't put it together before, but the problem here is obvious: This is what happens when you build a game piece by piece, ad hoc, based on feedback from early access. I bet the pacing made WAY more sense if you were playing along back then, waiting a while for them to finish the next big step.

And, like, clearly there is way more the developers plan to put into the game. Like, there's an unusable sand fishing hole just sitting there. Two of the hazardous ruins don't even have third levels! The bus terminal is the Most Important Building In Town, and it's an empty box where nothing happens. I have to believe more is planned. I just hope they add ENOUGH. Because boy that third act is empty.

Very good points being raised here. The more I learn from various places how much they completely retconned, abandoned and added to placate people the more this whole mess makes sense. This reminds me of end of GOT, where they changed the plot twist completely for the sake of having an unexpected plot twist, and the story made no sense.

Listening to player's feedback is great, but changing entire plot points you planned months in advance, in a short manner to placate players is never a good thing because then the story stops making sense. You haphazardly change what was planned out and then need to do patchwork so it hopefully makes sense. But the patchwork shows, it always shows.

The game up until the big climax in Act 2 is great, solid 9/10 to me. Then it suddenly takes a nosedive. The hazardous ruins and empty sandfish pond made me wonder too if whatever was planned there was scrapped altogether or will it still be added, just later. There are fish in game files that you can spawn with mods, that get used in recipes but have no model or textures. And a lot of vegetation like crystal/gold trees, grass and weeds and so on. I just hope this is a postponed content not one that got scrapped.

[Nykizta]

Honestly, the pacing of the game is pretty crippled by a complete lack of progression difficulty. Get a new story mission? Great, I've been stocking 50 of those for whenever I needed them because I had literally nothing to do for a week waiting for THIS mission to be available. Let's go back to waiting for the next arbitrary goal for me to throw materials at!

The beginning of this game is an ADHD dream; so many things to do, new NPC stories popping up, new projects and places! But that dries up pretty quick into repetitive waiting when you hit the new progression wall.

Also, is it just me or is the whole marriage package infuriating? Owen, shut up and stop telling me to take a vacation. I started out liking the guy, and now I regret having a kid with the dude because I have the needy thing taking up space in my house and there's no actual point to it? It's just RP, I guess. But kids can help feed animals and pets and whatnot, so why not add them into the helper system at all? Why not give a childcare chip to Mirror?

I dunno, I just think the game got I little too ambitious and fell flat at the end, a common issue. I don't regret the 100+ hours I've put into this game, I just wish it hadn't capped a really amazing experience with a fizzle.

P.S. Last little fuss, promise. Changing romance partners is SO DISORIENTING. I swapped partners in late fall and IMMEDIATELY triggered every mission possible for that relationship. Like, he was proposing within a week. Are you kidding me? Calm down, space out, CHILL. And then also stop saying the same two things every dang time I'm in ear range!

[ohiorice]

Well... when you view the map after completed every thing you can trigger, you find there is still a lot of map remaining unexplored/hidden. I'm hoping this means they have any number of plans for those areas.

I agree with everyone on 'after the end' game play. I was surprised something we built to build something else was gone after that particular mission completed. I guess the Yakmels needed their pastures back, eh?

Also agree with changing partners... went from Grace to Amirah... first thing Amirah does is shout in my ear 'WE WON". Eh? Gosh, that was like a season ago when I was with Grace...

I imagine it might be darn tough to have programmed events keeping track with the NPC roles in relationship to your character.

If I'd had a seat at the design table... I'd have tried a soft/hard sell on the main character having the ability to go back in time and choose a different timeline, without forcing them to hang onto saves. Who doesn't want to experience all the different missions and dialogues?

I know I do :-)

[Puchbol]

Chiming in on the 'Incomplete" crew; it's pretty obvious that quite a bit is not finished (or Devs were sloppy):

The Tunnel: Once you finish the mission, they show you the other side, but you can't go there. The Portal stays visible,but it is never usable.

Portia Bus Connection: IIRC, once you finished the equivalent Mission in Portia, you gained access to more Commissions and Products. In Sandrock, you get a Mission chain that invalidates (story-wise) a recurring Mission in Portia. Thanks, I guess?

Eufala Outback: Do a mission or 2, plant a couple rounds of trees, and never go back.

Yakmel Stops: There's one between the Sandfishing Stop S of Gecko Station and the Outback Stop that serves no purpose but to make the PC build another Stop.

Underlab: There's a Portal indicator that's nowhere near where the Challenge Dungeon is - missing Abandoned/Hazardous Ruin?

Water Maker: Why are we still having to pay for water while we're dumping thousands of gallons per day off a cliff?

Museum: Why is almost EVERYTHING "Medium Sized" when there aren't nearly enough Medium podiums? Why aren't there enough spots to display everything donate-able (corollary: why are so many items donate-able?) Why is the "Fishing Exhibit" stuck in the Curator's closet, and why aren't there enough spots for what few fish we do have? It's like there should have been a third Tier of Museum. Also: no Artifact Part Exchange?

"Open World Bosses": There's one "Normal" and one that shows up during Sandstorms. Yay.

Factories and Greenhouses: That horse is already a single molecule thick; no need to beat on it more.

[I'm scared of Toasters]

Originally posted by Puchbol:

Chiming in on the 'Incomplete" crew; it's pretty obvious that quite a bit is not finished (or Devs were sloppy):

Factories and Greenhouses: That horse is already a single molecule thick; no need to beat on it more.

I cut down the quote for space but whole of your comment and all the points are 10/10, when you start paying attention it feels like they either cut a lot of things they planed to add, or left things open for a story dlc they are planning to release later. There is so much space on the map feels empty and serving no point at all. And I have no love for the trees in the Outback either, I though we would be able to plant an actual forest in the actual desert not that little snipped in a place nobody ever goes to.

[SimuLord]

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

Yeah, it is weird how supposedly "big" late game projects only require like 10 plates and some planks.
It is probably like this to keep the game chill, but feels really weird when they ask you to create this big expensive thing... and you could make 30 of them with what you have in storage.

It makes sense if you played Portia and remember how infuriating it was to try and get the 40 carbon fiber together for the endgame quest in that game. I think the devs tried to improve the pacing of the final act in Sandrock and maybe went a little too far in the other direction.