Personally, not a fan of where the main story is going (SPOILERS)

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

I've been enjoying the game a lot so far and have over 150 hours in it, but I don't really like where the main story is headed post "The Goat" main quest.

For almost the entire first half of the game, we've been trying to capture Logan and Haru and viewed them as antagonists, but now the story kinda expects us to just side with Logan because there is a bigger threat? That still doesn't excuse Logan's actions (hijacking a train, kidnapping Matilda, blowing up the temple etc), he's still a bad guy, regardless of how much he "wants to protect Sandrock".

I don't like that the story basically stops unless you choose to agree to help two violent criminals and a CIA agent (arguably, the worst of the three) and doesn't give you a choice to arrest them or reveal their hideout or, at the very least, continue the story on your own instead of siding with them.

I get that this game is not choice-driven, but did nobody in the writing team think that not everybody would want to join a criminal gang, especially one that so much of the early game was spent on trying to locate and apprehend?

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by ArmedTerror:

Originally posted by CookieCat:

It makes it less enjoyable for me (which is why I started this whole discussion), and what does it say about a story and its writing when even the characters within it call out its plot holes?

He shows remorse. That is a very human thing. It makes the character more than 2-dimensional.

I never said he was badly written. He made some really, REALLY dumb decisions, but people do make those, so it's believable. This isn't about liking or disliking Logan, this is about whether or not he deserves to be in jail. For instance, I actually like Pen, Miguel, and Yan, but I agree that they all deserve to be in jail after what they did.

My issue is with the way the story is written, not the characters. So much effort was spent on establishing Logan as a threat to Sandrock, but then the player is expected to just forget about all that because of some nebulous threat that Duvos poses? This is especially a problem since Duvos is barely mentioned throughout the game and simply does not feel like a real threat. I've never played Portia, so maybe to the players of that game this whole Duvos business is more palpable, but as far as My Time at Sandrock goes there was simply too much storyline time and effort spent on showing what danger Logan poses, no time spent on showing the danger Duvos poses, and only a handful of time spent on trying to explain Logan's actions, which results in an extremely jarring plot twist where you are supposed to just forgive everything Logan has done.

It's just bad writing.

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by KarmicRequiem:

REMINDER ... It's a game ...

Aren't games supposed to be fun? If something in a game makes you not enjoy it anymore, is it not useful for the developers to hear about it?

[ArmedTerror]

In my case, the more I learned about Logan and his gang, and the overall town, the more I started suspecting there was more to the story. I actually saw this plot twist coming. I knew that something was fishy and that there were bigger players at work. I think the foreshadowing was intentional and we were meant to want to hear Logan out by the time we get to him.

When I got to Logan on the goat, I was still suspicious, but I also knew things were not as they seemed, and I was ready to listen to his side of the story and do some more investigating. I personally was ready to hear about something more devious because it seemed like Logan was actually a really good guy in the past. Some of the people in town really rubbed me the wrong way too. They could probably have set it up a little better. There is always room for improvement, but I think they did a sufficient job in sowing doubt in my mind at least.

[Errapel]

I would also have liked more foreshadowing about Duvos. It kinda felt that there was an awkward tonal shift from 'Western theme' to 'political intrigue' theme. First time I remember Duvos being mentioned is when Mr Musa first arrives and talks about it a bit.

I played Portia. There isn't an explicit threat from Duvos, but there is an attack from a 'rogue knight' who may or may not have been sent by Duvos. A little more time to world build about Duvos and the potential threat it poses, woven in with all the other stuff you're doing early-mid game, would have made some revelations less jarring.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the game. I enjoyed the story (occasional plot-holes included). But I'm happy to talk about ways the story could be improved.

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by ArmedTerror:

In my case, the more I learned about Logan and his gang, and the overall town, the more I started suspecting there was more to the story. I actually saw this plot twist coming. I knew that something was fishy and that there were bigger players at work. I think the foreshadowing was intentional and we were meant to want to hear Logan out by the time we get to him.

When I got to Logan on the goat, I was still suspicious, but I also knew things were not as they seemed, and I was ready to listen to his side of the story and do some more investigating. I personally was ready to hear about something more devious because it seemed like Logan was actually a really good guy in the past. Some of the people in town really rubbed me the wrong way too. They could probably have set it up a little better. There is always room for improvement, but I think they did a sufficient job in sowing doubt in my mind at least.

I knew that Logan wouldn't be a true antagonist from early on also because of the Sandrock wiki which lists him as a romance option and features his and Haru's birthdays on the calendar, so for me it was kinda of the other way around. I knew that he was supposed to be a good guy, but then the game would keep showing him do horrible things (hijacking a train, kidnapping Matilda), which made me surprised, because I couldn't see how he could be redeemed after all that. Well, I was right, he wasn't redeemed. Not well, at least.

[ArmedTerror]

Well he was pretty paramount in taking down the people who were planning on pretty much destorying Sandrock and the lives of all the residents there. So there is that.

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by Errapel:

I would also have liked more foreshadowing about Duvos. It kinda felt that there was an awkward tonal shift from 'Western theme' to 'political intrigue' theme. First time I remember Duvos being mentioned is when Mr Musa first arrives and talks about it a bit.

I played Portia. There isn't an explicit threat from Duvos, but there is an attack from a 'rogue knight' who may or may not have been sent by Duvos. A little more time to world build about Duvos and the potential threat it poses, woven in with all the other stuff you're doing early-mid game, would have made some revelations less jarring.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the game. I enjoyed the story (occasional plot-holes included). But I'm happy to talk about ways the story could be improved.

Thank you. I was actually thinking about how the Duvos threat could've been set up more. Like, what if the builder or their family was a refugee from Lucien or some northern territories and they had to flee the war-torn regions because of Duvos? Or, what if one of the Sandrock townies was some veteran of a past war with Duvos and would tell the Builder stories about how horrific it was? They could even have a missing limb or something to really visualize the pain they went through.

Also, I wonder why they went with Duvos at all. I mean, throughout the game we've seen threats from Geeglers and Bandirats, wouldn't it have been better if those forces were the ones threatening Sandrock instead of some foreign nation we've never actually seen in-game?

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by ArmedTerror:

Well he was pretty paramount in taking down the people who were planning on pretty much destorying Sandrock and the lives of all the residents there. So there is that.

He still deserves to be in jail, At best, this could shorten his sentence.

And honestly, the trio of Pen, Miguel, and Yan are not exactly super threatening. Yan can't fight, Miguel is hardly much of a threat, and although Pen is strong, if I managed to beat him by myself in a sparring match with stone weapons, I doubt I would've needed Logan's help to take him down.

[labskaus]

just keep playing... you'll see there are more villains. ;) And that some of the actions Logan took are somewhat understandable.

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by labskaus:

just keep playing... you'll see there are more villains. ;) And that some of the actions Logan took are somewhat understandable.

Understandable? Yes.
Excusable? No.

[ArmedTerror]

The builder would have never known about the plan had Logan and his gang not decided to let him/her in on it. Not on time to stop it at least. It was a group effort. Whether the bad guys were strong or not doesn't really matter for this point. It's honestly for the folks of Sandrock to decide what he deserves since it is their town, and they think he has done enough to deserve leniency. I would agree. But you feel how you feel. Evil acts don't make a man evil, and good acts don't make a man good. Everyone does a combination of both. He's a well made realistic character, and I think he is awesome because of that.

[Errapel]

Originally posted by CookieCat:

Originally posted by Errapel:

I would also have liked more foreshadowing about Duvos. It kinda felt that there was an awkward tonal shift from 'Western theme' to 'political intrigue' theme. First time I remember Duvos being mentioned is when Mr Musa first arrives and talks about it a bit.

I played Portia. There isn't an explicit threat from Duvos, but there is an attack from a 'rogue knight' who may or may not have been sent by Duvos. A little more time to world build about Duvos and the potential threat it poses, woven in with all the other stuff you're doing early-mid game, would have made some revelations less jarring.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the game. I enjoyed the story (occasional plot-holes included). But I'm happy to talk about ways the story could be improved.

Thank you. I was actually thinking about how the Duvos threat could've been set up more. Like, what if the builder or their family was a refugee from Lucien or some northern territories and they had to flee the war-torn regions because of Duvos? Or, what if one of the Sandrock townies was some veteran of a past war with Duvos and would tell the Builder stories about how horrific it was? They could even have a missing limb or something to really visualize the pain they went through.

Also, I wonder why they went with Duvos at all. I mean, throughout the game we've seen threats from Geeglers and Bandirats, wouldn't it have been better if those forces were the ones threatening Sandrock instead of some foreign nation we've never actually seen in-game?

So fun fact, in Portia one of the Civil Corps members actually is a veteran from Lucian. That would have worked much better here, giving us a little background on the political situation.

They did a reasonable job of putting doubt in my mind that Logan was a straight up villain, I knew there would be more to it all. So I'm not complaining there. But if I hadn't played Portia and read all the lore I could, I probably wouldn't have remembered Duvos was even a thing. A little extra fleshing out of the world would have really helped make the situation feel 'real'.

But you've still got a LOT of plot to go, so continue with that, and see if your thoughts on things change at all.

[labskaus]

so, do you know who "Tiger" is? Are you sure, it was him blowing up the temple?
The "excusable" Part... he does want to do time. He sees it similar. The Sandrockers are just glad, he's back and that he basically saved Sandrock from it's impending doom.

[labskaus]

Originally posted by Errapel:

Originally posted by CookieCat:

Thank you. I was actually thinking about how the Duvos threat could've been set up more. Like, what if the builder or their family was a refugee from Lucien or some northern territories and they had to flee the war-torn regions because of Duvos? Or, what if one of the Sandrock townies was some veteran of a past war with Duvos and would tell the Builder stories about how horrific it was? They could even have a missing limb or something to really visualize the pain they went through.

Also, I wonder why they went with Duvos at all. I mean, throughout the game we've seen threats from Geeglers and Bandirats, wouldn't it have been better if those forces were the ones threatening Sandrock instead of some foreign nation we've never actually seen in-game?

So fun fact, in Portia one of the Civil Corps members actually is a veteran from Lucian. That would have worked much better here, giving us a little background on the political situation.

They did a reasonable job of putting doubt in my mind that Logan was a straight up villain, I knew there would be more to it all. So I'm not complaining there. But if I hadn't played Portia and read all the lore I could, I probably wouldn't have remembered Duvos was even a thing. A little extra fleshing out of the world would have really helped make the situation feel 'real'.

But you've still got a LOT of plot to go, so continue with that, and see if your thoughts on things change at all.

The Duvos Threat is more than once discussed in the Newspaper, with other Free Cities being in war with them, defending their borders.

[Nubi, Toa of Gaming]

Originally posted by labskaus:

Originally posted by Errapel:

So fun fact, in Portia one of the Civil Corps members actually is a veteran from Lucian. That would have worked much better here, giving us a little background on the political situation.

They did a reasonable job of putting doubt in my mind that Logan was a straight up villain, I knew there would be more to it all. So I'm not complaining there. But if I hadn't played Portia and read all the lore I could, I probably wouldn't have remembered Duvos was even a thing. A little extra fleshing out of the world would have really helped make the situation feel 'real'.

But you've still got a LOT of plot to go, so continue with that, and see if your thoughts on things change at all.

The Duvos Threat is more than once discussed in the Newspaper, with other Free Cities being in war with them, defending their borders.

I know, but that hardly makes them a tangible threat, does it? Compared to Logan, Geeglers, or even just weather, the level of threat Duvos poses to the builder is pretty much non-existent until the story decides that it suddenly is.