Commerce Guild recipes should be available earlier

[alycyajane]

It's frustrating how the game gatekeeps Commerce Guild recipes. I have researched the Industrial Recycler, and there's a Free Cities commission on the board for it, but I can't take it because it needs Manganese Steel Blades, and the recipe isn't available to buy. This is by no means the only case.

Please can the recipes be made available earlier, rather than being tied to progression in the main quest?

[MegaMan]

Same here, I got Mi-An's quest for a time capsule but I couldn't make it because I didn't have the ability to make the bars...

[Zewtastic]

It's definitely annoying having to periodically check the Guild board for new Schematics.

[JVC]

Bad idea. It'll mean that people spend limited funds in the early game on recipes for something they won't be able to build before much later in the game. That'd be a lot more frustrating.

[Zewtastic]

Originally posted by JVC:

Bad idea. It'll mean that people spend limited funds in the early game on recipes for something they won't be able to build before much later in the game. That'd be a lot more frustrating.

Managing resources is part of playing most games. The attitude that people have to be protected from themselves is quite extreme and dangerous as we see irl everyday from politicians.

[Harris]

Originally posted by alycyajane:

It's frustrating how the game gatekeeps Commerce Guild recipes.

This is the part of Sandrock's overall "RPG" direction, and like other design decisions to that effect it doesn't quite work.

I get it what they were going for, but for me the main issue is not even the need to buy those recipes, but the fact the game doesn't notify me when new ones become available. For example, after the quest that gives you Mini Drill I legit expected a similar one for Chainsaw, which of course never appeared. Then at some point I noticed the recipe was in the Commerce shop all along. Very inconvenient.

Originally posted by Zewtastic:

The attitude that people have to be protected from themselves is quite extreme and dangerous as we see irl everyday from politicians.

It's not that, it's just that it's also bad game design to sell recipes which can't be crafted, because of areas locked behind the main story.

[syzara]

I think we can all agree that the recipes for currently available commissions should be available for purchase.

[mielon]

Originally posted by syzara:

I think we can all agree that the recipes for currently available commissions should be available for purchase.

Yep, if you unlocked a quest or researched a blueprint for advanced machine recipe parts should get unlocked regardless of the access to resources.

[Prywin]

And what will you do with the recipes without ressources? Nothing. All complainers show me one thing, you play the game at the wrong pace. Slow it down and learn from your mistake.

Next from you is then: Give us the ressources too devs, we can't build the items.

I'm on the no side for this. If you struggle with the commisions, you made a mistake and now life with it or reload an older save to fix that.

[MegaMan]

Originally posted by Prywin:

And what will you do with the recipes without ressources? Nothing. All complainers show me one thing, you play the game at the wrong pace. Slow it down and learn from your mistake.

Next from you is then: Give us the ressources too devs, we can't build the items.

I'm on the no side for this. If you struggle with the commisions, you made a mistake and now life with it or reload an older save to fix that.

The game makes it explicitly clear what you need to build at any given time and if any of the necessary recipes need to be purchased. If you buy a recipe you don't need at that moment, then you accept the responsibility that you may not be able to make it at that point in the game. Even commissions seem tailored to resources you can actually obtain at whatever point in the game you're at, meaning just buying a recipe you can't make isn't going to suddenly cause people to start asking for it.

There is not a "wrong pace" for the game - anyone should be able to take things as fast or as slow as they want. The main quest already has plenty of time-eating quests that you have to wait at least a day for, if not more.

[Sybarine]

Originally posted by Zewtastic:

Originally posted by JVC:

Bad idea. It'll mean that people spend limited funds in the early game on recipes for something they won't be able to build before much later in the game. That'd be a lot more frustrating.

Managing resources is part of playing most games. The attitude that people have to be protected from themselves is quite extreme and dangerous as we see irl everyday from politicians.

Thing is, you can already do this in Multiplayer, to an extent (limited by workshop level). If you buy a bunch of recipes at the start when you don't have the capacity to make them, you will start receiving commissions for them anyway. Putting off buying all those recipes allows you to build up your equipment and get a little stockpile going, so you can control when you begin to get commissions for them.

Adding something similar to the multiplayer recipe unlocks to singleplayer would be nice.

[syzara]

Originally posted by Prywin:

And what will you do with the recipes without ressources? Nothing. All complainers show me one thing, you play the game at the wrong pace. Slow it down and learn from your mistake.

Next from you is then: Give us the ressources too devs, we can't build the items.

I'm on the no side for this. If you struggle with the commisions, you made a mistake and now life with it or reload an older save to fix that.

Usually I have the materials way before I can get the recipes. I don't understand why this is *this* level of micromanaged by the game. I can do my own micromanaging excellently myself.

It's like that quest you get to fix the tram cart the second time and no iron wire recipe was available for the longest time. They actually added that in earlier, but why shouldn't that have been there earlier in the first place when you start to get the iron? It's just one example really.

[[OTG] Aelirenn]

Personally, I think it works well the way it is now. Sandrock is a struggle, especially early on. You just need to be careful to not take a commission from the board if you can't make the item. This isn't Portia so you don't have Higgins stealing the commission you wanted while you check to see if you can fulfill it. Mi-an just stands there looking at the board and never actually takes anything. That may change in a few days, I don't know.

The game is meant to be played at a slow pace so that events and bigger story and side missions don't overlap. That includes the items you need to buy recipes for and machines you need to research. Eventually you'll be ahead of the game on resources and machinery, but that is going to take a while. Until then you're playing constant catch-up. Portia was slightly easier in that respect, at least when it came to resources, but still had its moments like not being able to choose which machine you are researching.

If you go too fast through the game, the posted commissions are more likely to be for items you have no way of being able to make within the 2 or 3 day time limit. The important missions do not have a time limit, just the bother of seeing them unfinished in your journal. Some of the side missions may have time limits, but I can't recall. I've been replaying Portia while waiting for Nov 2 so I'm getting some things mixed up I'm sure.

[alycyajane]

Originally posted by syzara:

Originally posted by Prywin:

And what will you do with the recipes without ressources? Nothing. All complainers show me one thing, you play the game at the wrong pace. Slow it down and learn from your mistake.

Next from you is then: Give us the ressources too devs, we can't build the items.

I'm on the no side for this. If you struggle with the commisions, you made a mistake and now life with it or reload an older save to fix that.

Usually I have the materials way before I can get the recipes. I don't understand why this is *this* level of micromanaged by the game. I can do my own micromanaging excellently myself.

It's like that quest you get to fix the tram cart the second time and no iron wire recipe was available for the longest time. They actually added that in earlier, but why shouldn't that have been there earlier in the first place when you start to get the iron? It's just one example really.

This is exactly the situation. It's manganese steel blades that I can't get the recipe for, yet all they take is manganese steel bars, which have been available to me since Gecko ruins opened. I completely get locking recipes that need resources not yet available, but this is exactly like the iron wire situation used to be (so glad they changed that).

Once you get access to a particular ruin/area, then ALL the recipes you can now make should become available.

And, I'm not "rushing" the game, but this is my fourth playthrough (I tend to start a new character when a big update comes out, so I don't get deluged by newly implemented side quests), and I'm currently stuck waiting for the damn trees to grow in Little Woods.

[alycyajane]

Originally posted by JVC:

Bad idea. It'll mean that people spend limited funds in the early game on recipes for something they won't be able to build before much later in the game. That'd be a lot more frustrating.

But that's not the situation here. It's a recipe I have the raw materials for (manganese) as I'm well past the point where Gecko ruins have opened up.

When you unlock an area like that, all the recipes that can now be made with the materials you have access to, should be available to buy, not drip-fed to you as you progress through the main quest. For example, once you've got access to Gecko ruins, all the recipes at iron, manganese and chromium level should be available, provided they don't use other ingredients that you can't yet get hold of. It's also really inconsistent - the Chromium daggers recipe has been available to buy for ages, even though it needs claws. which I can't get yet.

[Gnasty Gnorc]

Originally posted by MegaMan:

Originally posted by Prywin:

And what will you do with the recipes without ressources? Nothing. All complainers show me one thing, you play the game at the wrong pace. Slow it down and learn from your mistake.

Next from you is then: Give us the ressources too devs, we can't build the items.

I'm on the no side for this. If you struggle with the commisions, you made a mistake and now life with it or reload an older save to fix that.

The game makes it explicitly clear what you need to build at any given time and if any of the necessary recipes need to be purchased. If you buy a recipe you don't need at that moment, then you accept the responsibility that you may not be able to make it at that point in the game. Even commissions seem tailored to resources you can actually obtain at whatever point in the game you're at, meaning just buying a recipe you can't make isn't going to suddenly cause people to start asking for it.

There is not a "wrong pace" for the game - anyone should be able to take things as fast or as slow as they want. The main quest already has plenty of time-eating quests that you have to wait at least a day for, if not more.

But they aren't wrong. People will be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that they have blueprints but no access to the resources to make it.

Someone mentioned people don't need to be protected from themselves, but that's absolutely wrong. Most don't know what's best for them, and will actively make bad decisions.