Not a fan of the water mechanic

[ZomBri_BrainZ]

I was super excited to get this game, but dang that excitement was shattered when I learned that all the machines require water to operate. It was like running into a wall made of hardened "what the fk is this nonsense". Its probably the most unpopular opinion among the fans but dang... I'm seriously supposed to believe that water, the most precious resource in the desert, is somehow absolutely necessary for operating machines? Who came up with this nonsense? I mean ok I get that you guys want to add some difficulty to the overall mechanics. But why can't the water issues be strictly about farming, animal husbandry, and personal hydration requirements? Why does this have to nonsensically extend to the operation of machines? Maybe it is an unpopular opinion but I think the water system as it is, is beyond stupid. I guess I should have done more research on the game instead of letting my absolute adoration of My Time at Portia drive my decision to buy into early access. Haven't touched the game since my "are you f'n kidding me right now" moment. Anyways I'm just venting, I'll probably come back in 6 months or so to see if anything changed. Good luck with the game.

[Bobucles]

This would probably be illegal though. Using a well takes from the water tables and would have an impact on the lake water level.

Definitely this. All water next to the oasis, ultimately comes from the oasis. If the builder drilled a well they'd be drinking from the same milk shake as everyone else. It's not even a maybe, you'd be outright stealing from the oasis.

While burning trash for fuel isn't very interesting, water in a desert is a fairly strong topic to work with. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more of a story arc surrounding the water in Sandrock. After all the oasis is itself an oddity, it's on top of a plateau surrounded by canyons. Water doesn't normally flow uphill, so there's probably something more to the oasis.

The builder's increasing water demands would definitely have an impact on the town, even to the point where they would refuse to sell you more water. Both sides would have to work together to both preserve and recycle water, since if you buy it all up (or start contaminating it!) the town dies. Your goal to save the town would end pretty quickly if you started doing crazy things like running machines during the hot summer or pouring buckets of water directly into the sand.

[hinoron1]

You know, I first read this topic title and thought:
"You mean where run into water and the scene fades out, and you find you've been teleported a couple steps away from the edge? That "water mechanic"?

...So I guess I'll talk about that instead! :P

Yeah, I didn't like it in Portia and I don't like it here. It made me think we were supposed to be able to swim, but that part of the game hadn't been coded in yet, so we get awkwardly ported back three steps.
I was wrong; they used the river water in Portia to separate areas for game pacing... which is fine, but if you don't want us to go into the water, then just block the pathing and don't let us go in! This reloading the whole map and teleporting us back three steps is very unimmersive and bizarre.

[TamanduaGirl]

Messaggio originale di Bobucles:

After all the oasis is itself an oddity, it's on top of a plateau surrounded by canyons. Water doesn't normally flow uphill, so there's probably something more to the oasis.

Not as odd as it seems. but is a rare find. Aquifers under pressure deep in the earth find channels up through the earth away from the pressure. It's how oasis come to exist. One time on a trip way up a dry mountain in summer we found a small bubbling spring. It did feel odd at the time. These water supplies are still limited though. Our whole town is on city well water and we have had to ration a couple of times during drought due to the threat of it going dry.

Since the Devs have expressed the idea to revitalize the area naturally and the town it's self I do expect water being a big part of that will be explored more later.

Messaggio originale di hinoron1:

You know, I first read this topic title and thought:
"You mean where run into water and the scene fades out, and you find you've been teleported a couple steps away from the edge? That "water mechanic"?

...So I guess I'll talk about that instead! :P

[...]

This reloading the whole map and teleporting us back three steps is very unimmersive and bizarre.

I agree. I expected to be chastised when I touched the oasis water but nope, just TP to land like it didn't happen. Maybe they can't trigger a scene as long as the "reset when water is touched" mechanic is in the game.

[Bobucles]

Not as odd as it seems. but is a rare find. Aquifers under pressure deep in the earth find channels up through the earth away from the pressure. It's how oasis come to exist.

Maybe.... but a plateau directly in the middle of a metropolis? This oasis isn't just surrounded by deep canyons, those canyons are filled with ancient skyscrapers. Which means Sandrock was built on top of an ancient city. The plateau would be made of deformed earth, loose dirt and sand that packed on top of it.

Don't forget the land is covered in holes and ancient caves. The odds of water naturally squeezing its way up, through the middle of a city, in an uncracked water sealed stone column(friendly reminder the planet got shattered pretty bad) that rises up and dodges every single hole in the ancient ruins.... are not good.

It's more likely the "oasis" is part of an ancient relic. Maybe it's part of a skyscraper's water tower, or a city park's fountain. Even 300 years after the city got reduced to rubble it's still pumping water. Or at least it should be, but if the water supply keeps dwindling then it could be starting to break down...

[Kishero]

The geology is odd, and I have gotten used to just ignoring discrepancies becase no one ever thinks about geology in gaming I swear to athe.

But lets think:

We know the actual town of sandrock is on a fairly small hill, it has one ruin site on that hill (The breach) so the topography of the hill can be said to be pre-calamity. (Mainly because otherwise the kind of sudden uplift to displace it from the salvage yards presumed ground level under the mining lifts to its presernt elevation would have done more damage.) Either way actually dating the topography turned out to be less key by time I figured out my best guess at the local hydrology below.

We're told in a loading tip that at least some of the surrounding desert is sea floor. But looking at the world map I'm not sure how much sense that gives.

We do see several remnant skyscrapers around that strech from far above to a rather deep substrata, and we are surounded by canyons that requre bridging.

The air has a decent amount of humidity, based on both local cacti being abundant and supporting scrub and grasses, and the fact that dew collectors work at all.

And the Oasis is low lying relative to the town, and has no tributaries (Theres no streams or Rivers feeding into it, nor do any leave it). We do see,after the small forest on the west side of the tracks what could be a dry river bed, but I'm not sure if the topography works/ but then the rail line is going to have changed things. Impossible to say without something before the region was modified or a few cores taken.

Overall what I think is happening, is that the prevailing winds must be moving across the map from that snow capped mountain in the west behind out workshop towards Sandrock, with the hill and its structures creating a rain shadow. Moist air comes along that path, piles up at the hill, hits the desert night and cools, shedding the moisture. This would make the oasis a relatively new feature. (Dust storms seem to come at a slant to that mainly but this makes sense too, if dust storm winds were not dry then the dust would clump out as it picked up static charge, drew moisture and formed larger grains too large for the wind to transport.)

Basically the town and the hill its on are one giant dew collector. Might not be 100% accurate I'm scaling down things that more normally work at plateau/mountain scale. Have to load n and take a look at the presumed leeward side of the map to see if it holds up.

Interestingly this makes Burgess's insistence on not logging trees or cacti work. Trees drink a lot of water but they also release it through their leaves, and all the actual trees I am aware of are windward's of the oasis but not close enough to it to be drawing much water. Their roots then serve to access deep water and push it out into the air for the topographic dew collector to receive.

Edit Briefly loaded in to look, (I'm waiting to do a fresh play after august update so I can appreciate the changes better) and its not sharply defined, but the apparent moisture levels in the ranch and around the town are consistent with the above, and there is definitely a dry riverbed that looks like it was cut off when the rail line went through. There are some bits of greenery on the leeward side that seem to be clinging to ruins, which could be creating a micro climate, and near the hills crest, but there's definitely a 'wet side' facing that snow capped mountain, and a 'dry side' facing away from it relative to the hill the town is on.

Final Edit to add: Devs, if you are reading this? I am genuinely impressed that this little theory holds up so well as it does.

[Revannia]

Messaggio originale di taylormarian9:

Messaggio originale di Revannia:

I find gardening to be more of a pain since I can't access all the seeds I have for some reason but maybe I haven't done enough planting yet.

This isn't related to the water issue, but when you say you can't access all your seeds, try using your mouse wheel to go to the next page. That's how you get the ones for the Flowergate Mission if that's what you're working on.

This just showed up in notifications today lol. Thanks for the advice but I figured out what I was doing wrong shortly after writing that :) Didn't realize had to hit "E" to access more seeds.

They've made gardening too convoluted and annoying with all the steps you have to go thru now. Not being able to do anything including harvesting without the stupid kit makes me not want to garden at all.

Back on topic, I agree the dew collectors are annoying. I've had 3 dew, at most, when I wake up and and I think the dew may evaporate if you don't collect it 1st thing. I've never seen the number go up after the morning collection so it appears nothing collects during the course of a day, just overnight. No idea why it says 20 dew when it never comes close to that number. I get more dew from gathering plants and it doesn't seem worth the resources to build multiple dew collectors. I just buy water for the most part.

[The Yeen Queen]

Messaggio originale di KainSvendir:

Messaggio originale di Boblawblah:

with their hands?

You have to open the water tank from above and fill it. Getting up ther to put water just one little cup-size "dew in a bamboo" at a time every day isn't just weird and inefficient, it's just dumb, as well as stocking the water like that in a long time. So putting through your worktable that water in good contenents (solid, easy to stock, practical to use etc), is not over complicated as someone said, it's not for nothing it just makes sense.

So the word you were looking for was "fill", not "feel". Gotcha. Lots of things are illogical in the game as represented if you think about their practicality IRL...

[Mistress_darknes]

Start small, harvest. collect dew..set up dew collectors and get water from bergs shop with seeds.
It is rough starting out but you do reach a point of having plenty of water.

I am averaging 200 gallons in storage..thats with crops and two of every machine and water tank 100%.

[Dex]

I started a playthrough without purchasing any water at all, and 70% of my time so far is trying to collect dew and rushing dew collectors. It's frustrating because I like having a variety of playstyles thare possible. Stardew Valley I can completely ignore farming if I want. I can fish everyday for years on end and never suffer because of it. I can mine exclusively if I want, or have an animal farm and nothing else (bit tougher at first).

Sandrock without purchasing water from the "limited" (it's not) water supply is an absolute nightmare.

Even with the 8 dew = 1 water, and the double the dew from gathering herbs perk, the problem is herbs don't always grow in the same place, and some of them take a couple of days to regrow, which means you're always spending a good amount of time trying to find the plants that might get you dew.

Oh, and every dew collector has a gold cost as well, 15 - 30 gold for the sea salt, but you acn buy 5 water units a day for 50 gold (which would take a single dew collector oh..approximately 13 DAYS to gather the same amount of water). It's just silly.

edit: wrong calculation

[taylormarian9]

Messaggio originale di Boblawblah:

I started a playthrough without purchasing any water at all, and 70% of my time so far is trying to collect dew and rushing dew collectors. It's frustrating because I like having a variety of playstyles thare possible. Stardew Valley I can completely ignore farming if I want. I can fish everyday for years on end and never suffer because of it. I can mine exclusively if I want, or have an animal farm and nothing else (bit tougher at first).

Sandrock without purchasing water from the "limited" (it's not) water supply is an absolute nightmare.

Even with the 8 dew = 1 water, and the double the dew from gathering herbs perk, the problem is herbs don't always grow in the same place, and some of them take a couple of days to regrow, which means you're always spending a good amount of time trying to find the plants that might get you dew.

Oh, and every dew collector has a gold cost as well, 15 - 30 gold for the sea salt, but you acn buy 5 water units a day for 50 gold (which would take a single dew collector oh..approximately 13 DAYS to gather the same amount of water). It's just silly.

edit: wrong calculation

You can also get dew from breaking gravel and hard rocks.

[KainSvendir]

Messaggio originale di Boblawblah:

I started a playthrough without purchasing any water at all, and 70% of my time so far is trying to collect dew and rushing dew collectors. It's frustrating because I like having a variety of playstyles thare possible. Stardew Valley I can completely ignore farming if I want. I can fish everyday for years on end and never suffer because of it. I can mine exclusively if I want, or have an animal farm and nothing else (bit tougher at first).

Sandrock without purchasing water from the "limited" (it's not) water supply is an absolute nightmare.

Even with the 8 dew = 1 water, and the double the dew from gathering herbs perk, the problem is herbs don't always grow in the same place, and some of them take a couple of days to regrow, which means you're always spending a good amount of time trying to find the plants that might get you dew.

Oh, and every dew collector has a gold cost as well, 15 - 30 gold for the sea salt, but you acn buy 5 water units a day for 50 gold (which would take a single dew collector oh..approximately 13 DAYS to gather the same amount of water). It's just silly.

edit: wrong calculation

Because in this case it's not just a gameplay mechanic, it's literally part of the plot, this is Sandrock it's in the middle of a very dry desert and they have water issues, you the new builder will be helping the community dealing with that.
You guys can say it's tough to farm because of that, but please understand it's on purpose not something that needs to be fixed right away, come on.

[Dex]

Messaggio originale di KainSvendir:

Messaggio originale di Boblawblah:

I started a playthrough without purchasing any water at all, and 70% of my time so far is trying to collect dew and rushing dew collectors. It's frustrating because I like having a variety of playstyles thare possible. Stardew Valley I can completely ignore farming if I want. I can fish everyday for years on end and never suffer because of it. I can mine exclusively if I want, or have an animal farm and nothing else (bit tougher at first).

Sandrock without purchasing water from the "limited" (it's not) water supply is an absolute nightmare.

Even with the 8 dew = 1 water, and the double the dew from gathering herbs perk, the problem is herbs don't always grow in the same place, and some of them take a couple of days to regrow, which means you're always spending a good amount of time trying to find the plants that might get you dew.

Oh, and every dew collector has a gold cost as well, 15 - 30 gold for the sea salt, but you acn buy 5 water units a day for 50 gold (which would take a single dew collector oh..approximately 13 DAYS to gather the same amount of water). It's just silly.

edit: wrong calculation

Because in this case it's not just a gameplay mechanic, it's literally part of the plot, this is Sandrock it's in the middle of a very dry desert and they have water issues, you the new builder will be helping the community dealing with that.
You guys can say it's tough to farm because of that, but please understand it's on purpose not something that needs to be fixed right away, come on.

And yet, we can completely ignore this very important mechanic by spending a measly 50 gold a day from the beginning, which is nothing.

I get that Sandrock is a desert, i really do. I get that water is supposed to be some big plot point, I do. So why is it so easy to ignore it then unless we don't purchase any water at all and then it becomes all you think about?

[KainSvendir]

Because ultimately it's a chill game? You have to think about it at least a little bit for the story, make the "effort" to always have enough of water for your machines, but not to the point that it would be a real problem for you the player as long as you follow the game and characters tips/advices.

[Dex]

Messaggio originale di KainSvendir:

Because ultimately it's a chill game? You have to think about it at least a little bit for the story, make the "effort" to always have enough of water for your machines, but not to the point that it would be a real problem for you the player as long as you follow the game and characters tips/advices.

So it's supposed to be hard because of the plot, but it's ultimately a chill game so it's easy to get water. huh? You're saying two completely opposite things here. Which is it? It's chill when you buy the water, but it's not chill when you don't buy water? That doesn't make any sense at all.

[KainSvendir]

Balance? Not too easy (for plot reasons) but not too hard either (for game-genre reasons), I don't know what's hard to understand in what I'm saying...