2nd playthrough -- refugee camp / Pent / Biff strategy request

[ahsanford]

All spoilers to follow, will not block.

Okay, so I am on my second playthrough. My order last time (after Ernie cleared):
F5 Port
H7 Mine
All of Fleatown
F7 Camp Savane
Captured Pentagruel's sectors but no mine control (as it is scripted)

And then somewhere around then, I get Biff's distress signal. I race up there and somehow save him (fair amount of reloading), get the dirt on Santiago and let Biff head home.

But I never got to do the Refugee Camp until it was fully massacred / Military in place for the famous ambush.

So for my second playthrough, it has been:

B2 Port - A2 Mine
Walked a lot of the western savannah
F5 Port --> H7 Mine
Zero done in Fleatown, Pent, Camp Savane, Refugee Camp
No radio SOS from Biff yet

And now I'm wondering how to play it.

Would love to experience the Refugee Camp and do its quests, but I am worried about triggering the Biff too soon, getting the military in motion at the Ref camp too soon, etc.

Can someone either rec a strategy to slow roll the plot dominoes on the first main land body after Ernie so I can experience the most 'before the Thanos snap' sort of unavoidables take place? Is there a key trigger to avoid starting all the dominoes falling?

Thx

- A

[ahsanford]

So I guess my biggest questions are:

1) What radius/event triggers Biff and his SOS?

2) Is the massacre at the Refugee camp unavoidable if I save Biff, or can I do both? What the trigger to the massacre to happen?

3) What's the best order of Fleatown / Pent / Refugee / Camp Savane / Biff?

Thx,
A

[ahsanford]

Okay. I read the rather technical timer/dependency/trigger thread here:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1084160/discussions/0/3807282258515311941/

It seems like a timer to start to Biff attack got tripped when I took my first mine. Unavoidable.

Also unavoidable is killing everyone at Refugee Camp if I go all the way to Biff to save him.

And, if I go the Refugee Camp, the world flip takes place and a tide of nasty comes. Cannot be helped.

But it seems like I may be able to keep Refugee Camp in its initial/talking quest state and I can keep Biff alive if I just play whack a mole with each wave headed to Biff. That may let me play out the first main body of land a bit more, enjoy more quests, amass more gear / experience / money so that I can fortify my positions before the worldflip happens.

- A

[uncle nick]

I think players are confused about Refugee camp. There will always be a massacre at refugee camp no matter what you do, the only difference is whether you will have a FULL massacre or PARTIAL massacre.

You should aim to complete the refugee camp quests (bring a medic) as early as possible, suggest after taking H9. Then you will have saved those NPCs who can be saved, and no longer have to worry about what happens at refugee camp. The few NPCs who will die, are doomed to die anyway no matter what you do, because they don't ever leave the refugee camp (Shamen and cable TV guy) to help save themselves.

If after saving Biff, and if refugee camp is massacred while you are away, you will have already saved those NPCs who can be saved. And you will not have to encounter the Colonel's ambush at refugee camp.

So, you get blamed for the massacre no matter what you do. There is no option to stop the massacre. After the massacre, all you can do now is to look for more evidence pieces to clear your name. This should be one of your goals during the second half of the game.

[ahsanford]

Thx. I get the massacre + worldwipe is scripted. I just wanted to see the Ref camp and try to cover some of its quests before the Biff timer goes off.

So since I last posted:

1) Took all of Pentagruel and learned of Biff's location but:

* I have not done Chimarenga retirement quests
* I haven't touched Fleatown other than the H7 mine (if you call that part of Fleatown, b/c it's 0% friendly right now)
* No radio signal from Biff yet (original 'first mine timer' must still be going, I only *own* 2 of the 4 mines that insta-trigger Biff's signal)

2) I then just captured the Refugee camp. I'll try to prioritize whatever quests I can do for those folks now.

Still haven't:

* Captured Fleatown
* Captured Fort Savane
* Captured the southern port

I'm really leery about heading south to Fleatown -- it's a lift to take it, while take time to recover, repair, etc. afterwards -- and then get caught very far from Biff when the signal comes.

We'll see what happens?

- A

[halcyan2]

So there are three trigger scenarios:

1. Biff quest starts
2. Corazon wants to meet at Refugee Camp (leading to World Flip afterwards)
3. World Flip happens anyway

---------

The Biff triggers are:

A. Enter A9 or B8 (right next to Biff). You can avoid this easily

B. Have 4 mines. You can avoid this by staying at 3 or less mines.

C. Timer. There's not much you can do about this.

But it really doesn't matter if the Biff quest starts. Once the Biff quest starts, a Legion squad starts heading for Biff. The important thing is that you intercept this squad. Once you eliminate it, you have all the time in the world to finish the Biff quest (as long as you don't get too close to the Major). You can delay the Biff quest, do it after the World Flip, etc. So it doesn't really matter if the Biff quest is started.

---------

The more important thing (to fully do the Refugee Camp quests) is avoiding the trigger to meet with Corazon at the Refugee Camp. Those triggers are:

A. Biff quest is complete. You can avoid this easily. Even if the Biff quest is started, just intercept the death squad and then delay completing this quest.

B. Control D14, D15, D16, C14, C15, or C16. You can avoid this easily by staying out of these sectors.

C. Have 4 mines. You can avoid this by staying at 3 or less mines.

D. Have 12 cities. This can be harder to avoid but it is doable. You can avoid completing the Dump and Rimville. Possibly delay Landsbach as well.

E. Have 70 sectors. This can be avoided by skipping empty areas with no points of interest. Or if you have a lot of sectors already, let Legion squads take over sectors that you have already explored.

---------

Last of all, it's useful to point out that if you get super close to the Major, it will automatically end the Biff quest (killing Biff if the quest is not completed) and automatically trigger the refugee camp massacre and world flip (even if you have avoided going to the Refugee Camp).

This happens if you enter A18 (two sectors west of Eagle's Nest), B18 (two sectors west and 1 south of Eagle's Nest), or B20 (directly south of Eagle's Nest).

If you are coming from the west, then you'll trigger the Corazon meeting (by going through C/D 14-16) first. And if you keep going, then world flip happens anyway even if you don't go to the Refugee Camp.

The interesting thing is that if you come from the South (using the Stone Staircase), it is possible to trigger the world flip without having Corazon invite you to the Refugee Camp.

[ahsanford]

Thx, that's what I was looking for.

I seem to have cracked it with this playthrough in terms of my goals when I started this thread. Since last post:

1) Did all Refugee Camp Quests (very nice quest loot from Sangoma the Shaman there!) -- I'm 100% there, and all 'people I'd like not to die' have left the camp.

2) I was shocked how many people I could give Maquis pamphlets to at the Refugee Camp. that completely ticked Pentagruel up to 100% and I didn't need to do any of the Smiley/Mollie/Maman stuff this time. I have that mine (that's *3*) and I'm absolutely flush with cash now. Time to pick up a proper Vet/Elite 6th for my main squad.

3) Still no Biff Trigger yet!

So I'm *almost* well geared enough for the Biff Battle (if I want to do it), but I like intercepting it for a bit until I'm geared to the hilt.

And as far as triggering the Refugee camp, I'm 100% at the Refugee Camp so it's more a matter of what / when I want to do things. I'll make another post for that b/c I have a prior post I need to find and link about that.

- A

[ahsanford]

Okay, so at this stage I have a few options:

Squad = Main + Ice + Barry + Livewire + MD

Cashflow = just blew up, something like +$11k/day right now

Status: I'm geared so-so (3 solid snipers rifles, a lot of explosives, but no MG or heavy weapons at all) but only two proper marksmen. Barry/LW/MD are around 70 and need to train up.

So I see the following three basic options:

1) Just go to Biff and trigger his siege there. Don't think that's a strong move -- my squad isn't there yet.

2) Take Fleatown, and do not answer Biff's call. Just hit the attacking army to interrupt it and keep fortifying militias everywhere. Then, when I'm ready, I do Biff + trigger the worldwipe at the Refugee Camp and brace for impact. I previously pulled this off *really* well at the normal difficulty (apparently just lucky as hell):

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1084160/discussions/0/7405656898329201165/?ctp=6#c3809532960782555035

3) Same as #2, but I *don't* eventually head to Biff / Worldwipe / etc. Just stall both as long as I can using the rules above.

I think I'm doing #2. #3 seems a bit like cheesing it. Talk me down?

- A