Just can't get into this

[ZeroEffekt]

Even with a plethora of mods (to make the game not a gimmicky pile of crap), I'm still finding a bit of jank messing the experience up for me. I just wasted a bunch of time on one particular bit of annoying nonsense.

After about an hour of trying to stealth kill through a map --
(just to pass through, bc I need to get to Biff who's literally on the opposite side of the sat-map from me; totally not a "you need to have pre-existing knowledge about the game to play the game" moment!!!)
-- I've realized that the majority of my time has been spent savescumming, because of course some guy 40+ tiles away will know exactly where my stealth merc is who just threw two knives into someone's back to kill them.
Clearly the guy didn't just call out in pain, but gave exact GPS coordinates to that spot over there behind that rock in the bushes.
AT NIGHT.
(don't even get me started on the 'finding a body' that kept happening bc I knifed their Sniper and left his body on the top of the 3(?) story tower, but someone still noticed it at random without even getting the ! + Suspicious going on first)

Maybe JA4 won't be a train wreck. Granted, iirc, this game bounced around through a series of devs for the better part of a decade before being finished. So I guess it could have been crappier.

Honestly am regretting not refunding. This is disappointing. And I expected so little after all of the previous post-JA2 train wrecks.

EDIT: PS: I just lost another pile of hours bc even after I managed to FINALLY sneak through the sector (that jank took so much time!!!!!!!), it turns out that my mercs can't even keep going bc exhausted. And the army I'm trying to intercept (that's after Biff) always escapes me.
This probably took out at least 6hrs of the ~40hrs total that I've played so far. Great job. Awesome. Gonna shelve this and forget about it. Take care, JA3 community.

[Morianthi]

That’s odd; I don’t remember having trouble with stealth kills against enemy AI. Anyway, you probably have to calibrate your expectations. This isn’t Commandos; this is Jagged Alliance. Stealth has never been its strongest suit, but it’s passable, to say the least. And your mercs are probably exhausted because… well, they’re exhausted. You can’t expect them to run around and shoot stuff 24/7, right?

[orochiart]

Postat inițial de ZeroEffekt:

Even with a plethora of mods (to make the game not a gimmicky pile of crap), I'm still finding a bit of jank messing the experience up for me. I just wasted a bunch of time on one particular bit of annoying nonsense.

maybe you are having problems because of all the mods? Maybe they changed something in how enemy behaves so you can't exploit the stealth mechanics?

I never had a problem of entire team running across the map or using edge of the map to run around entire enemy army. Also had multiple occasions where enemy stopped attacking me because they lost the line of sight "Skyrim syndrome: Must have been my imagination." So my problem is opposite of yours. Enemies not detecting sounds of bombs and gunfire.

Postat inițial de ZeroEffekt:

-- I've realized that the majority of my time has been spent savescumming, because of course some guy 40+ tiles away will know exactly where my stealth merc is who just threw two knives into someone's back to kill them.
Clearly the guy didn't just call out in pain, but gave exact GPS coordinates to that spot over there behind that rock in the bushes.
AT NIGHT.

I think enemy has similar knowledge as you do. You know position of every enemy that is visible by your team. So if Barry is seeing enemy behind the crates Buns will know enemy is there even if she has no direct line of vision.

Postat inițial de ZeroEffekt:

After about an hour of trying to stealth kill through a map --
(just to pass through, bc I need to get to Biff who's literally on the opposite side of the sat-map from me; totally not a "you need to have pre-existing knowledge about the game to play the game" moment!!!)

I was able to move on foot all the way from Diamond Red and had no problem reaching it in time. and enough time to spare. Same thing when you are down south and you use river travel. You were either unlucky or you only had one squad.

Also this isn't a linear game. There are multiple quests, mutiple ways you can complete them. What is the point of multiple stuff happening if you want a linear experience?

[Engioc]

Sneaking through a map sector unseen is very easy, especially at night, done it plenty of times. Are you sure you are setting your team to hidden? You know that crouched does not equal hidden? I only ask as I've seen plenty of people that don't seem to understand this and easily stumble into groups of enemies and then wonder why they get spotted.

No offence meant, but sometimes it seems like maybe older JA2 players have forgotten how hard it can be to pickup and play something new, like I'm sure JA2 seems very easy to you but isn't that just because you've played it many times and know what to expect? Again, that's not meant as an insult, as an older gamer myself I admit sometimes when I pick up and play something new in an old series, especially if there has been a long gap, it's easy to forget how hard it was at first in the older games.

[ZeroEffekt]

Postat inițial de Engioc:

Sneaking through a map sector unseen is very easy, especially at night, done it plenty of times.

I was playing this situation at night. Also, even though you'd rather just dismissively gloss over it, there were a number of bottlenecks I had to sneak through (ONLY DOABLE WITH STEALTH KILLS). Couldn't just run around the edge of the map.

Are you sure you are setting your team to hidden? You know that crouched does not equal hidden? I only ask as I've seen plenty of people that don't seem to understand this and easily stumble into groups of enemies and then wonder why they get spotted.

Won't even dignify that line of questioning with an actual answer.

No offence meant, but sometimes it seems like maybe older JA2 players have forgotten how hard it can be to pickup and play something new,

No offence, but here's an insult.
Pickup and play something new. LOL. Yes, us JA2 fans have a gaming disability. My 14yo account with nearly 1k games on it, and it's just so hard for me to pickup and play something new.
Clearly, no offence was taken.

like I'm sure JA2 seems very easy to you know but isn't that just because you've played it many times and know what to expect?

JA2 is irrelevant to this topic. And my experiences in playing it have nothing to do with my experiences playing the game. Not sure why you were even bring this up, if not to insult me.

Again, that's not meant as an insult, as an older gamer myself I admit sometimes when I pick up and play something new in an old series, especially if there has been a long gap, it's easy to forget how hard it was at first in the older games.

Again, no offence, but here's another insult.
It's interesting that you're straw man'ing the hell out of me, with your regular "no offence", to politely talk down to me. It's not a matter of DIFFICULTY, it's a matter of GAME MECHANICS. I made that absolutely clear in my post.
Again, clearly no offence was taken.

I'm not responding to any of the other people in this thread because it's the same old garbage mentality of "But I don't have the issue, so you're just bad! You probably messed it up with mods! You just have OCD and it's messing with you and you need help!". Just people wanting to post without adding anything other than annoying insult to the thread.

I seem to be the only person capable of admitting that this game is mediocre trash without mods, and even with them it's still not that great. Clearly I've dodged a bullet with giving up on this crap. Even if I loved the game, I wouldn't be able to stand this community (from what I've experienced).

Don't even bother responding, because I'm unfollowing this post. I expect it to fill up with more replies from people who don't care about the actual issue; just talking down to me about having it while spouting negative assertions about me.
Enjoy your mediocre game that's only better than all of the other post-JA2 games that came out, because it managed to retain a lot of the aesthetic and music. BIA had a better combat system than this gimmicky junk, and that game was an absolute reeking pile of trash (with visible stink lines).

[Morianthi]

I don’t know about you, but that seemed like a legitimate response. I (or we) never (or hardly ever) had any serious issues with the stealth mechanics, even more so when you mentioned that you installed “a plethora of mods.” In particular, I never experienced anything remotely close to this: “some guy 40+ tiles away will know exactly where my stealth merc is who just threw two knives into someone’s back to kill them.” So it makes us question if you’re certain that this is not caused by mods.

I could also sneak past enemies just fine. I even find the stealth mechanics a bit overpowered. There were even times when my merc single-handedly eliminated all the enemies (with 2x enemies mod, mind you) on the map using stealth. Yet, I don’t even consider myself a good player. So maybe you’re doing something wrong? And before you get offended, that’s not an insult.

I also don’t understand your issue with exhaustion.

As regards the Biff quest, it’s challenging but again very doable. I didn’t need any meta or prior knowledge of sorts. I just thought it was logical at the outset to maintain multiple squads. In my initial playthrough, I had a squad some sectors away. It wasn’t close yet I got there just fine. In another playthrough, I decided to send a squad from far away and again I got there without any issue. I honestly can’t remember all the details, but like I said, no issues at all. It just so happened that that’s where he is. It happens, just like in real life. You were just unlucky to be at the opposite side of the map. That, or maybe you should have maintained multiple squads.

[Morianthi]

And just a reminder: maybe it’s worth not being too oversensitive here. After all, you started the thread with all sorts of insults to a game that this community obviously holds in high regard. Calling it, among others, “a gimmicky pile of crap” and implying that it’s part of a train wreck isn’t really doing you any favors. You could have been more civil about it. Surely, you don’t expect the people here to be so welcoming after that. Even then, I find the responses here civil enough (well, maybe uncle nick’s can be insulting — sorry, uncle nick lol — but he could be sincere and really mean well).

[Hopper]

Postat inițial de ZeroEffekt:

I seem to be the only person capable of admitting that this game is mediocre trash without mods, and even with them it's still not that great.

You're not the only one.

I've finished it on singleplayer and on co-op, but most of my playtime was spent testing out mods to try and make things more enjoyable and challenging, but I couldn't shake the feeling that JA2 did it all better over two decades ago. I know comparison is the thief of joy, but JA3 doesn't even have half the depth that unmodded JA2 had. It's obvious the devs didn't have their hearts in it.

And JA3 is by far the easiest JA game once you get the hang of the basics and the OP perk system. I mean, you can solo the entire game with a knife. Here's a video of a guy casually killing 10 enemies in a single turn with just a knife...
https://youtu.be/u8FzVyN1tI4?t=314

And here's Ivan killing 12 in a single turn with a machinegun.
https://youtu.be/-XrSP8ZIRug?t=84

This is not how JA should be.

[uncle nick]

In the game, your role is that of the commander. As the commander. you don't have to build a melee IMP. You don't have to hire Ivan. If you do, then that is on you.

[Hopper]

Postat inițial de uncle nick:

In the game, your role is that of the commander. As the commander. you don't have to build a melee IMP. You don't have to hire Ivan. If you do, then that is on you.

I shouldn't have to intentionally avoid certain builds, tactics, and characters because the devs did a poor job of balancing the game. I know you're a bigger JA fan than most around here, but you're still allowed to point out flaws when you see them...

[uncle nick]

Not everyone will take the time to build, train, level up, perk up a melee imp. Not everyone will hire Ivan. I don't, don't know what he is saying.

[EddieDubs]

This probably should have been a review or, better yet, just a thought in your head.

[SumFatGai]

OP probably has unrealistic (or overhyped) expectations on stealth mechanics. This isn't Metal Gear Solid/other stealth games/countless Hollywood movies where you take out one enemy, and the rest of the enemies conveniently ignore the fact that they just lost a member of their team.
Safe to assume enemies have something called constant radio commscheck.

Can't blame people for complaining. That's always the difficulty of sequels, especially one that has had so much nostalgia/hype/disappointment over the years.

If JA2 never existed and JA3 stood alone as brand new IP, the same people complaining might hail this as a masterpiece. Sequels have to be at least 150% better than originals, just to MEET new unrealistic expectations. Even if it's objectively 150% better, the same people complaining will just say it's only as good as the original.
That's why most movie sequels bomb in the box office.

Think about how impossible it is to satisfy just one Star Wars fan. It's ok to just let people gripe. It happens everywhere.

[orochiart]

Postat inițial de Hopper:

I shouldn't have to intentionally avoid certain builds, tactics, and characters because the devs did a poor job of balancing the game. I know you're a bigger JA fan than most around here, but you're still allowed to point out flaws when you see them...

True. But you also don't need to make certain builds.

Postat inițial de Hopper:

And JA3 is by far the easiest JA game once you get the hang of the basics and the OP perk system.

Agree. Perk can be broken and it can be easy but also I sometimes messed up and my mercs would die instantly because of my mistake.

Postat inițial de Hopper:

This is not how JA should be.

I'm currently playing with big number of mercs. It is end of first month. I have 16 mercs. Main team of 6. And other team of 6+4 (4 that are there for support and to do some operation like repair and such)
IMP, Igor, Barry. MD, Buns, Livewire,
Kalyna, Mouse, Omryn, Hitman, Thor, Wolf, Fox, Grizzly, Vicki, +Larry

They are all level 3-4 and few are still level 2. I didn't try to cheese and train their stats. Maybe someone got a magazine or two to increase their stat but their stats are around 1-3 points from where they started.

Game runs normally. Nobody is overpowered and they are still functional. No busted builds.

A lot of them have 5.56 rifles Famas and one M16 (that do lower damage compared to other assault rifles) and ak-47. They have Recoil Management perk. They do torso shot followed by burst fire to torso.

There are only two snipers but they are on different parts of the map. They kill only one enemy per turn.

There is only one machinegunner (Grizzly) and he don't use setup.

Igor and IMP use combat knives and together they maybe stab 2-3 people to death at best (so 1.5 kills per turn).

only problematic mercs are Barry and Vicki.

Barry can cheaply craft pipe bombs and throw 2 pipe bombs for the same costs as one hand grenade. It also has bigger radius of effect. Someone shots the pipe bomb and it will instantly explode. Basically combo that seems unfair and deals twice as much damage.
He also got Fast Runner perk and short barrel Auto-5. this allows him to run around the map and do 3-4 shotgun shots.

Vick has two glocks. Also she has perk that gives her a lot of crit chance. So it is weird see her do 80 damage when other pistols usually do around 30-45. but even she only kills 1 enemy per turn.

[Chungo Beepis]

i completely cheesed stealth and dropping baddies like flies with a can for a silencer and their friends aren't alerted so i'd say stealth works, at least in general, but maybe knives are broken? i don't use knives i use rifles because i want to kill baddies not eat them. Really love this game.

[=M$= Oroberus]

Sounds like it's not your game, or you're going for your 9. jester award, both equally likely imho

Either way, have fun playing something else! :)