Sudden Strike

[Default Teammate]

So, this perk doesn't work the way I expected it to. I was hoping it would avoid the reaction fire from damaging enforcers, etc but it turns out that Blood still gets shotgunned every time he fails to one-shot them.

I don't have anyone else with the Sudden Strike perk, and I'm just curious if there is something buggy about it on Blood with his special knives specifically, or if I just misunderstood what it was supposed to do. Does it just avoid triggering overwatch, but not revenge reactions?

[CroCop864]

Sudden Strike: Cancel Overwatch and Pin Down with successful Melee Attacks.

Distracting Shot: Removes Overwatch and Pin Down. Does not provoke Interrupt Attacks.

It is a little bit irritating with the pronounciation, was also wrong about it one time.

[uncle nick]

I think the only way to counter reaction fire is lightning reaction, or using a sniper to shoot from a distance so to be out of range from the return fire of the shotgun.

Yeah, problem with Sudden Strike is that you still need to kill them so they cannot return fire.

I gave Sudden Strike to Pierre and lightning reaction to Spike. First, Spike uses Bullet Hell to give every enemy the default debuff (40-50 DMG). Then the enemy returns fire and Spike goes prone. Next the enemy repositions and setup their overwatch or pindown. Pierre then runs thru their overwatch and because the enemy are already wounded, they all die from one blow from Pierre's machete.

[CroCop864]

I have to test it again, but I think with Distracting Shot the enforcers do not shoot back.

[halcyan2]

Originally posted by CroCop864:

Sudden Strike: Cancel Overwatch and Pin Down with successful Melee Attacks.

Distracting Shot: Removes Overwatch and Pin Down. Does not provoke Interrupt Attacks.

It is a little bit irritating with the pronounciation, was also wrong about it one time.

But Sudden Strike also has the clause "Does not trigger Interrupt attacks while making Melee Attacks."

[CroCop864]

Originally posted by halcyan2:

Originally posted by CroCop864:

Sudden Strike: Cancel Overwatch and Pin Down with successful Melee Attacks.

Distracting Shot: Removes Overwatch and Pin Down. Does not provoke Interrupt Attacks.

It is a little bit irritating with the pronounciation, was also wrong about it one time.

But Sudden Strike also has the clause "Does not trigger Interrupt attacks while making Melee Attacks."

Yeah, that is the irritating part of the description ^^

[uncle nick]

Yeah Nah, I think you need lightning reaction to counter reaction fire. Otherwise, what is the point of lightning reaction? If you can just have sudden Strike or Distraction shot, then lightning reaction becomes a useless redundant perk.

[uncle nick]

For lonewolf melee build, I see everyone using grit to absorb the reaction shotgun blast.

I'm playing lonewolf Kalyna at the moment, using frogleap to runaway out of range of enemy shotgun.

[CroCop864]

Originally posted by uncle nick:

Yeah Nah, I think you need lightning reaction to counter reaction fire. Otherwise, what is the point of lightning reaction? If you can just have sudden Strike or Distraction shot, then lightning reaction becomes a useless redundant perk.

Yes of course I know what you mean, but it is about not triggering the enforcer attack. Not every merc has to choose the Agility-Dexterity route with the perks to make a counter attack then.

Lightning reactions is also a perk like a one time life saver for mercs, which are not so much healthy and/or much in defense with perks. But yes, it is perfect for counter strike as you have mentioned.

[uncle nick]

Just use grit like everyone else to absorb the damage.

[CroCop864]

Originally posted by Default Teammate:

So, this perk doesn't work the way I expected it to. I was hoping it would avoid the reaction fire from damaging enforcers, etc but it turns out that Blood still gets shotgunned every time he fails to one-shot them.

I don't have anyone else with the Sudden Strike perk, and I'm just curious if there is something buggy about it on Blood with his special knives specifically, or if I just misunderstood what it was supposed to do. Does it just avoid triggering overwatch, but not revenge reactions?

To answer the question, Sudden Strike works for Overwatch and Pin Down, but still triggers interrupt attacks by brutes.

Distracting shot works on Brutes, they will not shoot back, I tested it again.

[nDervish]

Originally posted by halcyan2:

But Sudden Strike also has the clause "Does not trigger Interrupt attacks while making Melee Attacks."

Correct. Sudden Strike does not trigger interrupt attacks.

The shotgun blast happens after you attack the brute, it does not interrupt your attack.

Preventing interrupt attacks does not affect it, because it isn't an interrupt attack.

[halcyan2]

Originally posted by nDervish:

Originally posted by halcyan2:

But Sudden Strike also has the clause "Does not trigger Interrupt attacks while making Melee Attacks."

Correct. Sudden Strike does not trigger interrupt attacks.

The shotgun blast happens after you attack the brute, it does not interrupt your attack.

Preventing interrupt attacks does not affect it, because it isn't an interrupt attack.

Except if you look at the description of the Revenge perk it says "Make an interrupt attack with firearms when taking significant damage during the enemy turn."

I think it's an issue of semantics whether it's happening during the attack versus after attack.

Similarly, it's an issue of semantics whether "provoking" Interrupt attacks (the wording that Distracting Shot uses) is the same as "triggering" Interrupt attacks (the wording which Sudden Strike, Revenge, Reactive Fire use).

[uncle nick]

Originally posted by CroCop864:

....Distracting shot works on Brutes, they will not shoot back, I tested it again....

Passive or Active only? Does it cost more action points to use?

[CroCop864]

Originally posted by uncle nick:

Originally posted by CroCop864:

....Distracting shot works on Brutes, they will not shoot back, I tested it again....

Passive or Active only? Does it cost more action points to use?

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by active or passive, but you have to actively use the ability, means to spend AP for Distracting Shot to use it. Perhaps you can explain your question to me again if it is necessary.

The cost of Distracting Shot differs between weapons. Sniper (min 10 AP), Pistol and Shotgun (min 7 AP), MP (min 6 AP), tested it only for short time with Omryn, Buns and Wolf on the very first sector. There could be further restrictions from weapon to weapon.

But what is very interesting about Distracting Shot, that it does not trigger interruption attacks by the enemy for the whole turn when they got hit with it. For example, I was standing right in front of 2 Butchers that I hit with 2 cheap MP Distracting Shots with each 6 AP cost and they could no longer interrupt to other attacks from my mercs (standing right next to the Butchers) for this turn, which is very interesting. This should actually work for every enemy regardless of what interrupt attacks they have. That is pretty cool :)

[uncle nick]

Sudden Strike, Lightning Reaction and extra Grit are Passive perks.

Distraction Shot looks like an Active perk, you have to select the special action button and use action points to activate the perk. From what you have described, looks like you are using another merc to use distraction shot to debuff the Butchers.

So, going back to the OP's original problem/question, which perk would you give to Blood?

Would you still give Sudden Strike perk to Blood, or your CQB shotgun/melee merc? Or would you give him Distraction Shot perk?