Casualties at Diamond Red

[e11]

During my first playthrough, I only visited Diamond Red after the military took it over, so I never had to deal with Graaf or the Legion there. I just tried, and started by going for the slave master's shack, intending to use it as a sniping platform. I took out all of his guards without being detected, even the one inside the shack, but the moment I got to work on Graaf himself, his men started randomly massacring slaves. Which is an odd thing to prioritize over fending off an attack, but whatever.

Being so far from the action, and it being night, I wasn't able to wipe the Legion out until there had been a big massacre. How are you even supposed to prevent this, and what are the consequences of a high/low slave body count?

[Gladius Victorius]

I was able to save near all Slave in Time only 2 die before i was able to kill the Guards by playing very agressive. And the use of Overwatch. I think you get lesser Money from the Mine more People die but you can fix that later in the game.
Oh and i forgot Smoke Bombs work great there to save the Slave they are all Down in in the Hole normal and most Guards abouve so get the slave into smoke the entire Time and send down 1 Fast fighter to Melee the Guards that are near the Slaves the rest you can shoot easy down

[Zerthimon]

I cleared the enemies left of the map and gradually moved towards Graff. Most kills were in stealth with suppressed weapons and melee. I had to rush my melee fighter at Graff while snipers/machine gunners gave him overwatch cover from the 3-4 goons surrounding his location. Saved all slaves this way.

[Triplefox]

Cleanly finishing the map without the slaves dying is mostly about making *group* stealth kills - stealth killing one guy and then finishing the other on the same turn with other mercs using overwatches, Hit & Run melee or whatever other tricks you might have. Fox can help with this because when she initiates combat, the enemies are surprised and you have an easier starting position. Blood is also useful for this fight, because he can throw a lot of knives each turn and get the silent kills you need to avoid aggro on the nearby troops. Nighttime will mostly make things harder if you don't have night vision since low accuracy makes it harder to get a one-turn win.

If you can finish all the guards that are paired together near the slaves, that leaves Graff, and that's mostly about doing max damage output(shotguns, knives, snipers) or covering him or the slaves with smoke so he's less effective. You don't have to stealth kill 100% of the guards to make this work, just the ones that are alerted by Graff.

If you still lose some slaves, there is a recruiter in Fleatown that will hook you up with new miners.

[Red Bat]

Not sure it's worth it to go way out of your way to save the miners. Unless you really mess up, he only kills 2-3 of them. After that he has to move off his platform to try to kill more, and you can easily just ambush him with stealthed mercs after killing most of the rest of his forces. He just completely ignores the fact that your mercs might still be in the area and wanders off, potentially into 3-4 merc's overwatch.

Even if you try to go after him first, he'll probably still kill 2-3 miners. He's pretty heavily guarded, so you might as well draw his guards away from him since he'll spend 3 turns shooting miners almost regardless of what you do.

There's ways to save everyone, but it's more effort than it's worth. You can either have 2 snipers shoot him immediately, which is a pain since the best spot to do it will have you firing from out in the open and shooting at an experienced dude from below, or you can try to stealth the whole map. I think he starts shooting miners if anyone gets alerted at all though, so still kind of a pain.

[e11]

Okay, I have a related question: The first time I beat Graaf, I then got to loot his super special sniper rifle. But after reloading, and beating him again with no casualties, the gun is nowhere to be found?
Is this because of the grenade I threw at him at the start of the fight?

[Un_Competent]

Stealth clear as many guards as you can.
Kalyna with a silenced rifle + hollowpoints + her active skill + headshot takes Graaf down in 1-2 shots.

[uncle nick]

Originally posted by e11:

...Is this because of the grenade I threw at him at the start of the fight?...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3049523471
I dunno, did the grenade destroy the balcony?

[nosedigger]

Originally posted by e11:

Okay, I have a related question: The first time I beat Graaf, I then got to loot his super special sniper rifle. But after reloading, and beating him again with no casualties, the gun is nowhere to be found?
Is this because of the grenade I threw at him at the start of the fight?

Yes, in my last run, last shot was sniper torso, and it went trough him destroying the coffee table with golden rifle. You should be careful with the explosive devices, especially if you are clearing the area first time, because you might accidentally destroy stashes and loot boxes

[SkyRiderJM]

Originally posted by nosedigger:

Originally posted by e11:

Okay, I have a related question: The first time I beat Graaf, I then got to loot his super special sniper rifle. But after reloading, and beating him again with no casualties, the gun is nowhere to be found?
Is this because of the grenade I threw at him at the start of the fight?

Yes, in my last run, last shot was sniper torso, and it went trough him destroying the coffee table with golden rifle. You should be careful with the explosive devices, especially if you are clearing the area first time, because you might accidentally destroy stashes and loot boxes

That's a good tip. I was wondering about those explosives that may destroy good loot, it kinda takes away from the fun of using them, specially when your out numbered by the enemy. Every time I faced Graff there's a cut scene so if you kill him his weapon should be there. I just did it I had 5 slaves survive for he killed one for several rounds before I got to him when he came down.

[SumFatGai]

Does anyone have an issue where defeating Graaf automatically results in +1 civilian casaulty?

This seems to happen whether you take him out with stealth prior to initiating combat, or even after he initiates combat (red) and you prevented any miner deaths. It doesn't matter whether you hire Graaf afterwards as a foreman.
I don't know why the JA3 system always recognizes Graaf as a civilian.

As a result, it seems impossible to get the "No Civilian Casualty" achievement unless you completely ignore that sector.

[orochiart]

Originally posted by KKG:

Does anyone have an issue where defeating Graaf automatically results in +1 civilian casaulty?

This seems to happen whether you take him out with stealth prior to initiating combat, or even after he initiates combat (red) and you prevented any miner deaths. It doesn't matter whether you hire Graaf afterwards as a foreman.
I don't know why the JA3 system always recognizes Graaf as a civilian.

As a result, it seems impossible to get the "No Civilian Casualty" achievement unless you completely ignore that sector.

I checked my old save file after conquering Diamond Red. I also have one civilian casualty because of killing Graaf. Unfortunately I don't have a save before attacking the Diamond Red to try and test how to maybe avoid it.

[SumFatGai]

Originally posted by orochiart:

Originally posted by KKG:

Does anyone have an issue where defeating Graaf automatically results in +1 civilian casaulty?

This seems to happen whether you take him out with stealth prior to initiating combat, or even after he initiates combat (red) and you prevented any miner deaths. It doesn't matter whether you hire Graaf afterwards as a foreman.
I don't know why the JA3 system always recognizes Graaf as a civilian.

As a result, it seems impossible to get the "No Civilian Casualty" achievement unless you completely ignore that sector.

I checked my old save file after conquering Diamond Red. I also have one civilian casualty because of killing Graaf. Unfortunately I don't have a save before attacking the Diamond Red to try and test how to maybe avoid it.

Good to know I'm not the only one then. I can't see any way that Graaf is a civilian.
The +1 civilian casualty happens immediately after defeating him (i.e. still alive), even if you decide to hire him afterwards! So he's not even a casualty then!
Submitted this as a bug report, will see what happens.

[uncle nick]

Thank You, i was being so careful in my 1st playthru. Been trying to figure out for a long time where i got the one civilian casualty.

So, looks like if you want the pacifist achievement, you are going to have to ignore the A2 Red mine, and maybe also can't hire Pierre without killing Graaf.

Can we finish the game without doing anything at A2 redmine? Then we can get that pacifist achievement.

[SkyRiderJM]

I just finished that battle again and the game said I had minimal civilian death I mean I killed him before he could even get one shot off, I hit him with a few HE rounds on his balcony so he stood no chance however I noticed a regular enemy below on the ground shooting at a civilian but he didn't kill him at that time so on my next turn I focused on killing that enemy first because he was doing that and then I killed the rest up the hill to the house.

[SumFatGai]

Originally posted by SkyRiderJM:

I just finished that battle again and the game said I had minimal civilian death I mean I killed him before he could even get one shot off, I hit him with a few HE rounds on his balcony so he stood no chance however I noticed a regular enemy below on the ground shooting at a civilian but he didn't kill him at that time so on my next turn I focused on killing that enemy first because he was doing that and then I killed the rest up the hill to the house.

Same, in one of my repeated test runs of the battle, I stealth killed almost everyone before taking out Graaf, just so I could consistently check my civilian casualty count.
In all scenarios, the moment Graaf is defeated is when the civ casualty count goes up by 1.