Game mechanics of JA2 V1.13 vs. JA3

[DonnernderVogel]

JA3 is now available for 3 weeks and the mods which try to iron out the mistakes of the developers sprout like weeds.
Suppose they had kept the complete mechanics of JA2 1.13 and replaced only graphicengine and story: Would it be a better version than the current JA3 ?

[CrUsHeR]

Some changes are good.

1) Perks, unique Talents and such are a very welcome update of the series
2) JA in 3D looking and working fine for the first time
3) Much of the music and voice acting is done remarkably professional
4) Combat is fundamentally different, yet within acceptable parameters (edit: it's fun)
5) Setting and Story seem fine as well


But for pretty much everything else, i have to give a huge thumbs down. And i know most of the veterans agree on this.

> The global UI problems, including but not limited to things like the merc organization and control through squads, the overview about which city has militia and how many, and so on
> The rigid operation assignments for literally every task (tasks which are unique per sector and cannot be changed until completion)
> The intransparency regarding exhaustion on the world map
> The complete lack of vehicles and Bobby Ray's
> The very limited amount of hireable mercs
> The entire itemization system where you throw 27 guns into a shredder to build one scope
> Etc.

[p30pl3h4t3m3]

you know 1.13 is/was a community project ? compare vanilla ja2 instead.

ja 1 and ja2 weren't the same game.

so far ja3 is in some things better, in other worse. i miss some minor stuff, like losing stats by getting hit, to estimate shots on the other hand works fine or even better.

so no, just copy would not work.

[[ScrN]PooSH]

While I like some features of 1.13, such as the suppression system or NCTH, the mod is bloated with tons of questionable features and overcomplicated in general. Simply releasing 1.13 with better graphics and a different story would utterly fail - while pleasing a few hundred nerds, it would be boring for most of the target audience.

[Tunnelirotta]

I miss the inventory system but overall JA3 is in better spot to grow than JA2 ever was.

[Alpha]

Originally posted by DonnernderVogel:

Suppose they had kept the complete mechanics of JA2 1.13 and replaced only graphicengine and story: Would it be a better version than the current JA3 ?

Lol no, 1.13 in its current state is a bloated mess of features upon features nobody needs, wants or uses.
Maybe version 2085 or something as old as that one would have worked, but that is something the upcoming editor and modding tools will take care off anyway.

[The Great Cornholio]

JA2 was a commercial failure and the majority of the people that bought it never played 1.13, never will, and do not care. No one cares about 1.13.

[tuckus2003]

Originally posted by The Great Cornholio:

JA2 was a commercial failure and the majority of the people that bought it never played 1.13, never will, and do not care. No one cares about 1.13.

No. JA2 was a commercial success that spawned an expansion pack and a “gold” edition. It did not meet sales targets in North America.

[Balavaeros]

ja2 is my favorite game of all time but 1.13 didnt really do it for me, some cool stuff but much of it i dont like. im reasonably happy with ja3 so far, there are a few changes im not fond of but overall i thnk its pretty good

[suejak]

The editors of GameSpot nominated JA2 for their 1999 "Best Game No One Played" award (and JA2 lost this category to Disciples).

[BaddAzzYellaBro]

no one cares about 1.13......dumb comment of the day award nominee. 1.13 is what made JA2 legendary and what made many fans of the JA series wish for a true successor. Which we finally got with JA3.

[Hammer Bear]

Originally posted by The Great Cornholio:

JA2 was a commercial failure and the majority of the people that bought it never played 1.13, never will, and do not care. No one cares about 1.13.

are you for reall lol

[Yuri Kossori]

ja1, ja2 & ja3 are different games.
turn based, similar vibe, familiar characters.
same game mechanics? no
fun? yes

1.13 is being molded by many people for so many years its almost a different game.
if I compared 1.13 it would be old vs new chance to hit/inventory

im probably the minority preferring the old CTH & inventory... while you cant pimp your gun the hit chance is more forgiving at least on the 1st few hours the differences between new and old cth evens out later & i like upgrading armor over LBEs... *runs away*

[Dorok]

mod 1.1.3 is a collection of features, no global gameplay coherency, it's up to player to design his game. Sure that's a concept, but plenty players don't want design their games, and prefer a base reference. This mod is out of topic sorry for the fans.

[SirHawk]

Originally posted by suejak:

The editors of GameSpot nominated JA2 for their 1999 "Best Game No One Played" award (and JA2 lost this category to Disciples).

Who actually cares about Gamestop? xD. Silly site that exist to get memed, alongside IGN, known only for their operation period and starting as one of the first gaming sites. But idk, maybe in the past their quality was better.

Originally posted by Alpha:

Originally posted by DonnernderVogel:

Suppose they had kept the complete mechanics of JA2 1.13 and replaced only graphicengine and story: Would it be a better version than the current JA3 ?

Lol no, 1.13 in its current state is a bloated mess of features upon features nobody needs, wants or uses.
Maybe version 2085 or something as old as that one would have worked, but that is something the upcoming editor and modding tools will take care off anyway.

The intention of 1.13 was fine tuning elements of the game, broadening mechanics and most importantly - giving the player even more freedom in terms of how they want to play. As well as to give a tone of weapons that fare similarly, but someone may find that one cool, so you can pick an eye candy, instead of being forced to pick a stronger gun, that's on same caliber and barrel lenght. Still, FAL is the strongest AR in both 1.13 and JA3, which I find ironic, due to how terrible that gun is to control in reality.

So don't be pretentious and understand what something is about, before stating an opinion.

[uncle nick]

Originally posted by DonnernderVogel:

...Suppose they had kept the complete mechanics of JA2 1.13 and replaced only graphicengine and story: Would it be a better version than the current JA3 ?....

Yeah Nah Maybe? What game engine would you use, and who would be paying for it? Unreal or Unity? In 2023 reality, such a game would never have been made on what looks like the equivalent of a shoestring budget, and many sleepless nights and unpaid hours of a labour of love. And me, you, all of us will still be waiting for another 20+ years, possibly never.

Instead, what we have looks like HG were willing to put up their own HG engine to the test. They kept some traditional JA mechanics, but also need to showcxase other game mechanics that are required for on-going and any future game dev projects.

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

...i know most of the veterans agree on this....

Agree on what? In the absence of leadership over here, some of us look towards Bearpit for guidance. At first i thought the big man had gone away on some big fishing trip (looking at his steam account public screenshots) then i saw him post that he had been playing JA3.

My understanding is that the big man posted that over 20+ years, the views have not remained the same, but have grown with so many different competing viewpoints, as you would expect. He also posted that he is waiting for the game devs to release their mod tools and documentation. To JA veterans like me, this shows some level of respect towards the game creator and the current owners of the intellectual property.

You may think that we all agree or disagree on certain aspects of the game, but first and foremost you must show some respect to the IP. JA is bigger than any one or all of us.