Dual Wield useless?

[Dreepa]

Did anyone manage to find an interesting way to use dual wield?
So far anytime I try it, it's just really useless compared to just using a 2 slot weapon.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G__H78sGoRE

Originally posted by VoiD:

low damage, low range, low accuracy version of virtually any other choice, and for "quick arms" having to aim to even have a chance of landing a shot kinda kills any advantage related to lower AP costs, not that it's low to begin with.

That's why you use the abilities like Mobile Shot and overwatch. Properly built overwatch merc can empty their revolvers with more accurate and economical fire (and instantly reload them for free) than what aiming allows. They are not for aiming, they are for shooting as many times as possible. :captainsmooth:

Then again, MGs do far better as overwatch weapons, and even if you don't want to spend all the bullets, a gun like a FAN with actual enhancements for overwatch can outrange, and outdamage them in that role as well.

Having a doubletap overwatch with FAL, or any other rifle will pretty much guarantee the effects of a MG overwatch in that area dealing up to 120 base, reliable damage to anything that takes any action.

Bonus points if you do it with a weapon with a bipod, then you'll never miss a shot.

[Yuri Kossori]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by Yuri Kossori:

dual uzis with extended barrel.
dual glocks might be good but its range is a little short and I prefer run and gun over mobile shot.
still experimenting with uzi + glock/deagle.

You can't dual burst. Or is it possible with Uzi/Glock? Or perhaps you just mean use AP ammo and hollow head ammo?

ok done test. you can double burst with uzi + glock or glock + uzi

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Yuri Kossori:

Originally posted by Dorok:

You can't dual burst. Or is it possible with Uzi/Glock? Or perhaps you just mean use AP ammo and hollow head ammo?

ok done test. you can double burst with uzi + glock or glock + uzi

Nice, thanks for the precision, too lazy to test, so I can try with glock but would need reconsider the merc with uzi and grenades.

[Cpt.Charname]

yep , better use shotgun instead.
7ap shot just make ur aim worth it but its damage or range is too low compare to AR/SR/Shotgun.

[Yuri Kossori]

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

Does anyone know how different optics and targeting assist interact when dual wielding?

tested not in combat but shooting own mercs and this works somehow.

stuff that only works on the primary hand: Sniper scope, UV, Compensator

Red dot works on any hand (it only marks, i believe you cant crit using mark on friendly fire?? it stays marked coz the crit wasn't consumed?)

tested with 2 uzis with sniper scope, reflex sight, UV, compensator, suppressor & red dot by mixing them around aiming and shooting my own mercs

[Hymzir]

I've had plenty of success with Fox dual wielding Glocks modded for Overwatch after couple of level of extra Overwatch perks. Is it better than Overwatch with an AR? Sometimes, It's situational, like most everything in the game. Not as good in the open savanna, but can be really devastating in more build up areas. The amount of lead she can put towards the enemies is kinda scary. And when dealing with a human waves of knife and machete swinging loonies, you get lots of extra hits even with the misses, since the game tracks every bullet until it hits something. Like the dude next to the target or behind him. For extra fun give her Hollow points and watch the crits flow. Or ahve AP ammo in one and Hollow points in the other. Best of both worlds.

Is it as good as Raven with an HK21 on Overwatch? Not overall, but again, it's situational. The cone is lot wider for the dual Glocks, and the ammo is also an important factor to consider. A HK21 chews through bullets just as fast as it mows down goons. I need to watch my rifle caliber ammo stock, but am sitting on a stack of 500+ 9mm and can happily blaze away with them.

I do run a FAL or M24 on the backbar for Fox to sue in more active engagements. But the double Glocks have been quite useful too, especially on Overwatch.

I also run Meltdown with double Uzis. They seem to fit her personality and the gun and run is a good option when repositioning. Most of the time she looks at the enemy through the sights of an MG, but I sometimes I charge with run and gun straight towards whichever mook pissed her off, and finish with a double burst to the head from point blank range.. But that's more for flavor and style, and not something I do in a tough fight. Pretty funny and entertaining all the same.

But yeah, without ambidextrous, there is not point to go dual wielding. Double Hi-power aimed shots can also be quite brutal in the beginning of the game. Surprisingly high damage on those pistols. So it can be quite effective before you get rifles for all your mercs.

[Oddball_E8]

Try dual wielding two modded Glock 18's with either vicky ur meltdown (preferably vicky, due to her bonus from having fully modded weapons) and enjoy.

The Glock 18 fires 4 shots with each burst, meaning a full burst is 8 shots when dual wielding.
Not only that, but it has a special muzzle that increases crit chance based on the mercs level.
Add to that the fact that you can mix ammo, and you'll get a really nasty close-mid range weapon.

I usually use armour piercing in one and hollow point in the other. Maximizing damage potential to enemies regardless of if they're armored or not.

And as a bonus, it uses 9mm, which you'll be practically swimming in by early-mid game anyway... so just burst away to your hearts content.

[Dreepa]

Originally posted by Oddball_E8:

Try dual wielding two modded Glock 18's with either vicky ur meltdown (preferably vicky, due to her bonus from having fully modded weapons) and enjoy.

The Glock 18 fires 4 shots with each burst, meaning a full burst is 8 shots when dual wielding.
Not only that, but it has a special muzzle that increases crit chance based on the mercs level.
Add to that the fact that you can mix ammo, and you'll get a really nasty close-mid range weapon.

I usually use armour piercing in one and hollow point in the other. Maximizing damage potential to enemies regardless of if they're armored or not.

And as a bonus, it uses 9mm, which you'll be practically swimming in by early-mid game anyway... so just burst away to your hearts content.

I remember seeing a table selling fully modded glocks.

Anyone remember the exact location? Was it Fleatown?

[Rücklicht]

I used Meltdowns dual wield ability to great effect with two modded UZIs.

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by Dreepa:

Did anyone manage to find an interesting way to use dual wield?
So far anytime I try it, it's just really useless compared to just using a 2 slot weapon.

There are essentially 2 ways to dual wield:
Flanking and overwatching.

For flanking, you definitely want some solid sluggers like Anaconda or Desert Eagle. Mobile shot will then do respectable dmg and you can finish off the target with a dual shot to the face for 48/60 dmg respectively.

For overwatching, you want to have either double Uzi or double Glock. I suggest Glock, because it's simply better, but the difference isn't that high, so both works. On overwatch, dual wielding burst weapons has unequalled stopping power, that is only rivalled by a very lucky shotgun burst - with over twice the range. Dual shot basically fires both weapons with 1 less AP cost, so you get a cheaper double burst out of it.

With both loadouts, you can ofc flank and overwatch depending on the situation, but it won't be equally effective. Because mobile shot only makes a single shot every time, using auto weapons for it is moot, so the point is to not even waste your AP on it, but instead rely on the sheer output of the burst fire dual shot. Keep in mind, that you can't mix burst and single fire weapons effectively and if you take for example an Uzi in one hand and an Anaconda in the other, the merc will only make single shots with the Uzi.

Originally posted by Dreepa:

I remember seeing a table selling fully modded glocks.

Anyone remember the exact location? Was it Fleatown?

They are only partially modded and yes, it's in Fleatown.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Dreepa:

Originally posted by Oddball_E8:

Try dual wielding two modded Glock 18's with either vicky ur meltdown (preferably vicky, due to her bonus from having fully modded weapons) and enjoy.

The Glock 18 fires 4 shots with each burst, meaning a full burst is 8 shots when dual wielding.
Not only that, but it has a special muzzle that increases crit chance based on the mercs level.
Add to that the fact that you can mix ammo, and you'll get a really nasty close-mid range weapon.

I usually use armour piercing in one and hollow point in the other. Maximizing damage potential to enemies regardless of if they're armored or not.

And as a bonus, it uses 9mm, which you'll be practically swimming in by early-mid game anyway... so just burst away to your hearts content.

I remember seeing a table selling fully modded glocks.

Anyone remember the exact location? Was it Fleatown?

Yes, but the mods seem always been the same.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by Yuri Kossori:

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

Does anyone know how different optics and targeting assist interact when dual wielding?

tested not in combat but shooting own mercs and this works somehow.

stuff that only works on the primary hand: Sniper scope, UV, Compensator

Red dot works on any hand (it only marks, i believe you cant crit using mark on friendly fire?? it stays marked coz the crit wasn't consumed?)

tested with 2 uzis with sniper scope, reflex sight, UV, compensator, suppressor & red dot by mixing them around aiming and shooting my own mercs

Thanks a lot. I don't have enough components to test everything on my first playthrough and I'm playing iron mode right now, so it's a bit difficult to try things out.

[Arakus]

Dual wield 2 Uzi with range extension and other mods is fine.

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Then again, MGs do far better as overwatch weapons, and even if you don't want to spend all the bullets, a gun like a FAN with actual enhancements for overwatch can outrange, and outdamage them in that role as well.

Having a doubletap overwatch with FAL, or any other rifle will pretty much guarantee the effects of a MG overwatch in that area dealing up to 120 base, reliable damage to anything that takes any action.

Bonus points if you do it with a weapon with a bipod, then you'll never miss a shot.

Under ideal circumstances, MGs have compareable stopping power, but only if there is no pebble in the way to block some shots in front of the prone shooter... Being able to give flexible MG-like overwatch from any position is quite powerful...

Double tap works on dual wielding weapons too btw. The FAL can outrange, but it won't outdamage. 8x8=62 against 45 burst dmg of the FAL base. 60 with recoil booster, but then the Glock will have a recoil booster that increases crit by quite a lot.

Either way, dual wielding is still quite amazing considering that we are talking about quite cheap weapons that are easy and quick to mod into an optimal loadout and that also happen to use the cheapest, easiest to convert and most widely available ammo types in the game. This is especially relevant if you want to equip 16 mercs on MI difficulty, where giving every AR a bipod is economically simply impossible. Compromises need to be made and dual wielding is a solid compromise for sure.

[Yuri Kossori]

another thing
all scope, sights, reflex sights will only work on the primary hand.
any sights on the offhand will not work. not even improved iron sights from the deagle

compensators and suppressors
works properly on primary hand
but if its on offhand it doesnt work until you swap hands
ex: off hand has the compensator/suppressor. you shoot. no bonus. swap hands then suddenly you see the bonus.
i dont recommend this XD

uzi + .50 deagle = looks cool, its like a jab jab straight lmao