Limit Silencers

[Aegmar]

Its really ludicrous..., even the JACKHAMMER can be attached with a Silencer...and all Silencers make Weapons totally silent, right ?

I don't say the game needs to go full 1.13 and introduce subsonic ammo and 100 different ammo types, but its really a bit too much "action movie fantasy gunnery"...

Give SMG's and Pistols a better place by making them the only weapons that can be really silenced. AR's and some Sniper Rifles can take a Silencer/Surpressor and maybe then won't be heard over the whole map, but they won't be as silent as an MP5 or Glock with a Silencer - enemies should hear those over half the map at least.

Also when you fit most weapons with a Silencer the damage from them should be reduced - except some SMG's and Pistols.

Game is made too easy with totally silencend full power Sniper Rifles that work just as well over any distance.

[ChaosKhan]

Silenced or not - the ability to dish out 6 instakilling headshots a turn over half the map, that's the issue. Not the silencer. The AI simply can't deal with it and the map layout is 90 % of the time too open. If the player ever had to clear a multiple storey building room to room, if urban fighting was more of a thing how it usually works in reality, then maybe it would be silencers that are the problem. Until then, I'd rather say that AI behavior and maps need a huge overhaul, before balancing should even matter.

[Aegmar]

The AA-12 Jackhammer automatic Shotgun can be fitted with a Silencer ingame and is then totally SILENT..., i mean seriously ?

[BloodyPork]

The only way to make this game not stupidly easy is to ban yourself from using any kind of silencer. Just one silenced weapon make the game too easy, a trained merc can just solo the map with a silenced pistol, or heck, silence weapon in general, he can also do the same with knives.

Stealth is a mistake... there's too little enemies for this game to remain of any challenge with stealth weapon.

[ChaosKhan]

Ah yes, the gamebreaking silenced shotguns... XD

[Aegmar]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

Silenced or not - the ability to dish out 6 instakilling headshots a turn over half the map, that's the issue. Not the silencer. The AI simply can't deal with it and the map layout is 90 % of the time too open. If the player ever had to clear a multiple storey building room to room, if urban fighting was more of a thing how it usually works in reality, then maybe it would be silencers that are the problem. Until then, I'd rather say that AI behavior and maps need a huge overhaul, before balancing should even matter.

I can silently kill enemies with silent sniper rifle or whatever large caliber/high velocity gun and its so silent a guy in the next room can't hear it..., thats ridiculous.

AI and Map layout are what they are and probably not that easy to change, making the weapons and mods a bit more in line with reality would be pretty easy to do and would already take quite a lot of the cheese out....

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by Aegmar:

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

Silenced or not - the ability to dish out 6 instakilling headshots a turn over half the map, that's the issue. Not the silencer. The AI simply can't deal with it and the map layout is 90 % of the time too open. If the player ever had to clear a multiple storey building room to room, if urban fighting was more of a thing how it usually works in reality, then maybe it would be silencers that are the problem. Until then, I'd rather say that AI behavior and maps need a huge overhaul, before balancing should even matter.

I can silently kill enemies with silent sniper rifle or whatever large caliber/high velocity gun and its so silent a guy in the next room can't hear it..., thats ridiculous.

AI and Map layout are what they are and probably not that easy to change, making the weapons and mods a bit more in line with reality would be pretty easy to do and would already take quite a lot of the cheese out....

The map layout and dumb AI will still leave tons and tons of openings to exploit. Then people will simply not stealth snipe them, but just do it loud. Will still be the same shooting gallery. It won't fix anything, as long as the fundamental issues are not fixed.

AI should be alerted, after 1 or so minute passes and someone is dead btw. They surely have some kind of communication devices and it's damn suspicious, is someone suddenly doesn't answer the "call".

[Aegmar]

Originally posted by BloodyPork:

Just one silenced weapon make the game too easy, a trained merc can just solo the map with a silenced pistol, or heck, silence weapon in general, he can also do the same with knives.

Only when you save and reload A LOT. Often enemies will be too close together or in LOS somehow so its not practical.

Its totally ok when you can pick off some patrols or lone enemies with a sneaky merc with a silenced pistol or MP5 or even knives or barehanded and make the ensuing fight a bit easier, but it would be risky and take a lot of time reloading or you have bad luck and the stealth kill fails, you are discovered etc.

NOW i can just use almost ANY other weapon, some with extreme range, on any merc and still kill almost all of them silent.

Its the single one thing that makes the game far too easy.

[ChaosKhan]

Also, if you don't want to cheese, then simply don't do it. There are other mods than silencers and literally nothing forces you to use them.

[Aegmar]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

Originally posted by Aegmar:

I can silently kill enemies with silent sniper rifle or whatever large caliber/high velocity gun and its so silent a guy in the next room can't hear it..., thats ridiculous.

AI and Map layout are what they are and probably not that easy to change, making the weapons and mods a bit more in line with reality would be pretty easy to do and would already take quite a lot of the cheese out....

The map layout and dumb AI will still leave tons and tons of openings to exploit. Then people will simply not stealth snipe them, but just do it loud. Will still be the same shooting gallery. It won't fix anything, as long as the fundamental issues are not fixed.

Then you better return to Ja 2 1.13..., they might tune the AI a bit but they surely won't do any fundamental changes on the very detailed handcrafted Sector maps.

I don't even need such fundamental changes, just take a bit of the cheese out and make it much harder or even impossible (without hours of save scumming) to easily clear most enemies totally silent. Sure, you can preposiition and do it loud, but then the enemy at least shoots back. Thats fine, game does not need to be totally hardcore, i'll settle for some of the super cheesy/easy "exploits" being removed

[zpc]

If you are bored with silenced shotguns - try a silenced RPK

Yeah, that stuff needs a change. Silencers have to take damage with each shot and they shouldn't be possible on all and every gun. Or - and that would be a welcome alternative: let the AI do the same thing with us. Sneak up upon our lone wolfs / snipers and silently kill them with knifes and let their snipers shoot us "out of nowhere".

[cifrelettere]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

Silenced or not - the ability to dish out 6 instakilling headshots a turn over half the map, that's the issue. Not the silencer. The AI simply can't deal with it and the map layout is 90 % of the time too open. If the player ever had to clear a multiple storey building room to room, if urban fighting was more of a thing how it usually works in reality, then maybe it would be silencers that are the problem. Until then, I'd rather say that AI behavior and maps need a huge overhaul, before balancing should even matter.

Even then rifles are still better than pistols and SMGs. The big problem is that pistol and SMG damage is just way too low. At point blank range they should do the same damage (with less base armor piercing ability of course) as rifles/ARs and that damage should fall off over distance.

When a .44 FMJ from a pistol and a 5.56mm FMJ from a rifle hit the same target and go through the same target the .44 will do more damage simply because the caliber is larger. But in the game there's the idea that the 5.56mm does more damage and somehow imparts 100% of its energy into the target, but this is pure nonsense since both went through the target and could only impart an amount of energy equivalent to the change in momentum when going through the target. Both bullets did not stop in the target so they cannot impart all of their muzzle energy into the target.

Said it before and I'll keep saying it: JA2 had it wrong and pistols were useless there too, so is it any surprise that JA3 which follows from the same bad base assumption that muzzle energy = damage also has pistols being useless?

[Bloodwest]

don't use silencers, problem solved

[FatalException]

Funnily enough, subsonic ammo is already in the game...

Seeing how guns have different native noise levels descriped, ('very noisy', [normal], 'less noisy' and 'silent') I wonder if they changed the design at some point. It seems to me that reducing the noise level by 1 tier wouldn't be so far fetched for a supressor, with subsonic ammo required to reach silent at all.

[[NcK]MasterShake|CM]

The more I play, the more I realize that a well configured MG is the true death dealer in this game. No need to suppress the marksman, save the scrap. And no, it should not be nerfed... though I do think suppressors should effect reliability though. Do they even cause a decrease to weapon reliability? ie: need more repair more often? Anybody know?
But you really only need silence until you get your first decent machine gun and enough ammunition to feed it.

Also, it shouldn't bother anybody that an automatic rifle is a straight upgrade to a .38 special.

[ferengi]

Shotgun suppressors are a thing in the real world. The pump action and the impact of the projectiles can be louder than the gun itself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtIqTfObXIo