Is it just me or are ARs and SMGs kinda garbage?

[Prkl8r]

Sniper Rifles, Pistols, and MGs all seem much stronger than ARs and SMGs to me.

Am I doing it wrong? They seem to have lower hit chance AND lower damage. Should I be using single shot over burst or auto?

[Lightning]

Yeah I don't really use them cause the auto attack is really bad imo compared to an actual full auto gun

[avadream]

only use ICE or your IMP as an auto ace.
Maybe there's a mod for auto-weapons.

[HozzMidnight]

It's not just you. They completely suck ass. A dragunov is better than any SMG or AR in the game and you get them pretty early.

[Lightning]

Its also rng too and the odd thing is i found 2 PSG1s even before a Dragunov yet but i know you can buy a modded one for like 3k somewhere

[Zer0]

*most ars are garbage

a FAL well kitted will outdps almost any rifle, just a tad less range, and free movement. 4 bullets per burst, and either 2 bursts and high acc & range or 3 but you need to get quite close to hit reliably

then the true monster is lmgs, fn minimi gets 3 ap bursts and rifle range.

[Machiavelli]

Mostly. The meta is one shotting everyone in the head with surpressed sniper rifles. Which is fun but it would be nice to be encouraged to use the other weapons more.

[Darkeus]

Originally posted by Fellington:

Mostly. The meta is one shotting everyone in the head with surpressed sniper rifles. Which is fun but it would be nice to be encouraged to use the other weapons more.

Good thing I never use the meta for anything. I am stubborn like that lol.

[Twelvefield]

DOWN WITH METANARRATIVES!! (see picture link)

https://metanarrative.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/pomdsm.jpg?w=584

If you are needing great aim, an AR or a SMG aren't for that. Those guns are for hosing down an area, not nicking an aorta. Lots of small calibre lead, mostly, and noise. Well, you could suppress an SMG, which would make is very useful for indoors stealth close-quarters combat.

[Dre G Writer]

Yes, the balance is terrible for those weapons and thats why this steam workshop mods exist.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3006227631&searchtext=

This mod single handedly makes SMGs and assault rifles viable and not have to reply on snipers. This mod makes those weapon better than snipers when taking on multiple enemies in mid-close range.
It goes both ways tho as enemies gets the damage boost as well so this makes the game more challenging and more exciting and combat goes faster.

[RejectedByAnthonyDavis]

They do poor damage and have bad range compared to rifles. But are useful if your main objective is to inflict a negative status on the enemy (inaccurate, bleed, crippled etc.). Just one hit on the limb is enough, regardless of the damage done.

Current ranged weapon tier list (IMO):

Rifles
Shotguns
LMGs
Assault Rifles
SMGs
Pistols

[Prkl8r]

Originally posted by RejectedByAnthonyDavis:

They do poor damage and have bad range compared to rifles. But are useful if your main objective is to inflict a negative status on the enemy (inaccurate, bleed, crippled etc.). Just one hit on the limb is enough, regardless of the damage done.

Current ranged weapon tier list (IMO):

Rifles
Shotguns
LMGs
Assault Rifles
SMGs
Pistols

Honestly pistols seem better than AR and SMG at close range to me. Low cost to fire and more reliably hit shots.

[Vegetable Vampire]

Yeah well, sniper-style is powerful, no doubt. Although some sectors have around 30+ enemies and snipers require more AP than other weapons. Action economy is important when dealing with a ton of enemies.
I found that a dedicated machine gunner can kill like 6 people in one turn. Sometimes more, when enemies stand in a line. The main problem with that can be the amount of ammunition it requires to keep this up, but as I said, it is not always required. Most sectors don't have more than 15 dudes, 4-6 of which die at least in the first round, usually.

[kayfabe]

The thing with ARs is that you can get great mods for situations where you're unlikely to score a kill and that's great for mercs that aren't easily shoehorned into Agi/Dex builds. E.g., the FN FAL setups where you get free aims and then apply Mark whenever you have 3+ Aim value while fishing for a hit yourself instead of using Pin Down is quality even if bad asses like Igor would rather use something else. Because of that dynamic there isn't actually that much room to buff assault rifles before they're just better than everything else again and then we get people whining about the same problem from a different direction. You know, because then the beefy bros with lots of HP would be about as deadly when set up correctly as the sneaky sniper crew that most people I've watched can't even seem to play well without save scumming.

[suejak]

Originally posted by kayfabe:

The thing with ARs is that you can get great mods for situations where you're unlikely to score a kill and that's great for mercs that aren't easily shoehorned into Agi/Dex builds. E.g., the FN FAL setups where you get free aims and then apply Mark whenever you have 3+ Aim value while fishing for a hit yourself instead of using Pin Down is quality even if bad asses like Igor would rather use something else. Because of that dynamic there isn't actually that much room to buff assault rifles before they're just better than everything else again and then we get people whining about the same problem from a different direction. You know, because then the beefy bros with lots of HP would be about as deadly when set up correctly as the sneaky sniper crew that most people I've watched can't even seem to play well without save scumming.

This is the most accurate analysis I've seen. I'm not 100% sure you're right, but a lot of the people oriented towards AR/OW usage have lowish AGI with high marksmanship, and they benefit tremendously from e.g. the hard minimum on OW attacks provided by the light stock and the extra bullets from burst. Meanwhile, they have tons of HP and STR, are good in heavy armour, and can even get damage buffs and further damage reduction from (for example) the HP tree.

These guys are often solid machinegunners but the idea is that MGs are ammo-limited, so they can use ARs in other situations.

If these guys were ALSO potentially the best all-around damage dealers, then suddenly everything falls apart because what's the point of the little cutie pies with no HP/STR and lots of DEX who people are turning into snipers?

I also think people tend to overlook the role played by utility ammo, but that's another discussion.

[kayfabe]

Originally posted by suejak:

If these guys were ALSO potentially the best all-around damage dealers, then suddenly everything falls apart because what's the point of the little cutie pies with no HP/STR and lots of DEX who people are turning into snipers?

I also think people tend to overlook the role played by utility ammo, but that's another discussion.

Yeah, it's admittedly a tricky issue because the best mercs don't really have a problem with being a beefy sharpshooter that can imitate the effects of many weapon features just by being awesome and it's tough to argue with just maxing out their damage potential and calling it a day. Further complicating things is that well, this franchise is Jagged Alliance, a series about hiring everyone from guys so deadly that they're living legends to goobers that couldn't cut the mustard in basic. At some point you have to ask existential questions about how good the Gontarskis of the world are actually supposed to be. Personally, I kinda like the long running joke that Nails has a beer belly and doesn't move fast when off his bike. Making dumb teams work is a long standing JA tradition.