The Core Change that Makes this Not Jagged Alliance:

[Still]

Edit: Here's a response from a popular YouTube channel refuting what I'm saying: https://youtu.be/GddMTHg4yyc

Please watch that and decide for yourself.

Edit 2:

Just finished the video above and the game looks fine / good to me! Just preordered :)

I am leaving this thread up because I think this convo is actually important (gaming is serious business) for this genre of game.

[Still]

Originally posted by Arathir:

Originally posted by tanjo two guns:

Just looked. I mean promising but it's really telling that this game came out in 2007. Crazy.

Maybe I should try Company of Heroes or something. I'm basically looking for a 3rd person RPG or DoTA / LoL in a single player game with elements like Splinter Cell / Ghost Recon

Company of Heroes is more a strategy game than anything. Maybe Partisans 1941 may be more your cup of tea. (I did not play it, so I don't know if it has exactly what you are looking for)
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1227530/Partisans_1941/

Awesome tactical realtime combat with Pause + planning is the Door Kicker series, but not much of a strategy layers between missions. And it is top down.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1239080/Door_Kickers_2_Task_Force_North/

Already own the first and the second is obv a diff type of game. I also am not big into WW2 sadly. So again no games like what I want actually exist except JA: BIA.

[Basil Fawlty]

Originally posted by FisTan:

you're not alone tanjo. This game is probably another unimaginative nostalgia based cash grab which just tries to copy XCOM in JA2 setting. My god man, XCOM didnt even have good combat, it was rudimentary at best, why do people keep copying bad mechanics without thinking about it is beyond me. Individual reaction is completely gone from the game too btw, overwatch mechanic replaced what JA2 had, you know yellow "Interrupt" turn which added another dimension to your resources. Do i use everything, or save some for possibility of an interrupt.

Interupt was also based on stats, if your soldier had higher level than the ai-soldier. Or something like that, cant really remember, was a long time ago.

The "new" Xcom-games was console games that never should have come to pc.

[Hans Blitz]

Some characters used hearing devices like ear phones to detect soft noises too, i usually had all my mercs with ear wear or atleast a few in squad had hearing detection.

[raeven]

Originally posted by tanjo two guns:

Originally posted by Gnudoctor:

"Games" are about learing mechanics and use them to your advantage I would say. Be open for something new every game!

Thank you for this point but that's just one type of game. This isn't that type of game. This is a SIMULATION. Meaning it's meant to simulate actual combat. That's what I think devs of these games are really missing out. We don't want a tabletop system. We want a simulator.

I don't. A lot of other players don't. Different people want different things. Realism is of no interest to me whatsoever.

[Still]

Originally posted by Sunbather:

Well, I don't see what's the issue here. You can literally see in the video how he went out of sneaking mode (probably by accident), got spotted immediately and the goon alerted his mates by screaming at them. Completely plausible and realistic.

The following video (by someone who doesn't accidentally click on buttons) further disproves OP:

https://youtu.be/GddMTHg4yyc?t=575

Enemy can be taken out with an unsuppressed rifle and his mates won't notice it when they are far away enough.

Hey I finished watching this and this actually looks fine... honestly.. great! I am going to edit the OP again with my thoughts. I think I am going to leave this thread up though because I think this convo is still ongoing / productive and honestly is something we as a community should talk about....

[ViiK]

Originally posted by Oddball_E8:

Originally posted by tanjo two guns:

Yeah not sure. The one I played was Jagged Alliance: Back In Action and it's perfect. If the others are like that, that's what I'm talking about.

There is pausing, there is queing. But no turns. BTW I have 1k hours in X-Com 2 so I know turns when I see turns.

Dude complains that the game "isn't Jagged Alliance" based on his experience with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ sequel that pretty much everyone agrees isn't Jagged Alliance...

That's awesome.

Look, around here pretty much everyone agrees that there are only two "true" Jagged Alliance games... JA1 and JA2.

The rest are just pale copycats that have "core changes that makes them not Jagged Alliance", to use your own words.

In Jagged Alliance 2, if an enemy spotted you during real-time, the turn started and *you* got the first turn. This always seemed unfair to me.
In this game, if an enemy spots you during real-time, the turn starts and *they* get the first turn.

Still not fair, but at least it makes the game a bit harder (which I'm all for) and keeps in line with the "turn starts when you're spotted" mechanic from the original games.

And since it seems the enemy only get to run to cover, it's a fair tradeoff.

Nope, you could walk into a room and get a full mag in auto depleted into your back, or a cheeky knife throw into a back of your head and merc is dead. You got a turn only if your merc was high level, aware of enemy, high energy, good perception and etc.

[cerealKiller]

So I'm trying not to spoil much with any gameplay, but it seems like if you're going to be on offense all the time it makes sense that you set your squad on "overwatch" while each member advances. I think it's realistic as this is what any military will do while advancing. Often the enemy will be found patrolling or off guard and on notice will take positions immediately on contact. Can't you send a stealth type to scout?

[avadream]

Originally posted by raeven:

Originally posted by tanjo two guns:

Thank you for this point but that's just one type of game. This isn't that type of game. This is a SIMULATION. Meaning it's meant to simulate actual combat. That's what I think devs of these games are really missing out. We don't want a tabletop system. We want a simulator.

I don't. A lot of other players don't. Different people want different things. Realism is of no interest to me whatsoever.

The complete ancient JA franchise playerbase wants a simulation, to keep using the same terminology.
It's actually a danger to JA3 when common tactical gamers think this is just a common tactical game.

[raeven]

Originally posted by avadream:

Originally posted by raeven:

I don't. A lot of other players don't. Different people want different things. Realism is of no interest to me whatsoever.

The complete ancient JA franchise playerbase wants a simulation, to keep using the same terminology.
It's actually a danger to JA3 when common tactical gamers think this is just a common tactical game.

But I am that playerbase 😆😆😆

[avadream]

Originally posted by raeven:

Originally posted by avadream:

The complete ancient JA franchise playerbase wants a simulation, to keep using the same terminology.
It's actually a danger to JA3 when common tactical gamers think this is just a common tactical game.

But I am that playerbase 😆😆😆

Well then, as you can imagine, it surprises me

[Hans Blitz]

The Old game i would deck out characters after hitting Alma Military base which was difficult, there your team finds night vision goggles, hearing devices & Kevlar armour with ceramic plates you can use compound chemicals on too harden even more for more ablative armour, my unit became tanks with the right equipment & members with the right skills they become super lethal using guns like 80 range rifles like the Dragonov ( Reach Out and Touch Somone!) my favourite rifle of Jagged Alliance two, pop your whole squad soon as i seen it before you could react too tell your buddies, no one hears the shot from the other side of the map, only a patrolling unit would notice his splatted head corpse on the ground if it was spotted in the area of another npc.

[discoplumber]

Originally posted by tanjo two guns:

Originally posted by Arathir:

From your edit, it feels like you were expecting JA:BiA style of gameplay instead of JA1/2 turn-based one. I am not that much familiar with Back In Action, but from the few videos I just checked, it feels like it was realtime with stop functionality, is that correct?

Correct. Basically like the original Dragon Age game. This is what I want. Not a turned based game.

Well sucks to be you then I guess.

[Saethulu]

Originally posted by Serph:

OP is upset the game isn't the same as BiA, which is a god awful JA game and not JA. If you took a second to even look at what the devs said about the game nothing beyond JA2 in their eyes is a successor to JA2 that include BiA.

Yeah, as someone that spent most of their JA time with JA, Deadly Games, and JA2, OP's concern means nothing to me. As in, 'what's the problem? I see none.'

[Marcelis_Wallace]

Maybe someone will mod the game so that it works like Jagged Alliance of old. It's not a deal breaker for me though.

[Still]

Just want to reiterate that I actually changed my mind and this looks great. Thank you to the replies to this thread. I have edited the OP to reflect my new thoughts. This video explains how the system(s) work and they look great to me, much better than X-COM 2:

https://youtu.be/GddMTHg4yyc

I know I will continue to be insulted and that is actually great. I appreciate the insults, actually. It's refreshing to see all of you saying things like "sucks for you I guess" when a human being is expressing disappointment.