The Core Change that Makes this Not Jagged Alliance:

[Still]

Edit: Here's a response from a popular YouTube channel refuting what I'm saying: https://youtu.be/GddMTHg4yyc

Please watch that and decide for yourself.

Edit 2:

Just finished the video above and the game looks fine / good to me! Just preordered :)

I am leaving this thread up because I think this convo is actually important (gaming is serious business) for this genre of game.

[discoplumber]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by discoplumber:

You get that you don't HAVE to use stealth, right? You can charge in and have gun fights left and right if you want.

If your comment is for Phantom Doctrine, a few missions/areas was requiring stealth but you could play most of campaign with combats but it was a bit artificial.

If your comment is for a TB game, no, if stealth exploit is available, it changes the difficulty tuning, many players will exploit it a lot because it's more efficient no matter how repetitive it is, and this has an impact on feedback and forum discussion, without mention the unavoidable temptation to use it when it's more tense. JAF was totally destroyed by addition of an efficient Stealth, so ridiculous.

Have you even played JA2? You couldn't kill every single enemy from stealth and if you can't stop yourself from using stealth even though you don't like it that sounds like a you problem. It's a single player game, having stealth kills won't impact anything. And I keep telling you, it is not an exploit, it is a tactic. If you don't want to spend time setting up an ambush and taking enemies out 1 by 1 then just don't do it. This game isn't made specifically for you and you alone, if you don't like the way someone else plays I don't know what to tell you? Tough ♥♥♥♥ maybe?

[Still]

Originally posted by FlyinJ:

Originally posted by tanjo two guns:

Go reread the OP and/or the replies. It's actually not like X-COM 2.

I highly recommend that you replace the beginning of this post making it crystal clear that this game does NOT use the Xcom "pod system".

The fact that you need to read all this false information before getting to your third edit is going to have people assume that this game has that awful mechanic in it. You can still see people who read half the post and are responding with disappointment.

I honestly don't even understand why you are even keeping all of that false info in the OP at all?

Done

I think the thread itself provides value / insight into what people are sick of in these games and the nuances of this genre.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by tanjo two guns:

Originally posted by FlyinJ:

I highly recommend that you replace the beginning of this post making it crystal clear that this game does NOT use the Xcom "pod system".

The fact that you need to read all this false information before getting to your third edit is going to have people assume that this game has that awful mechanic in it. You can still see people who read half the post and are responding with disappointment.

I honestly don't even understand why you are even keeping all of that false info in the OP at all?

Done

I think the thread itself provides value / insight into what people are sick of in these games and the nuances of this genre.

I know this is already all said and done, but I just wanted to throw this in, because I am really enjoying this game.

I had a fight against a very big enemy patrol, 15 enemies got triggered as I stepped on a mine with fox, the rest of the squad was not spotted, I pulled them back behind a big rock and set up an ambush, fox did not even try to fight back, just told her to run as far away as possible behind another rock and re-hide again.

The enemies would then proceed to run towards her last spotted location, none of them could shoot anything, as none of my squad members were visible.

I then proceeded to throw some grenades, then duck back behind rocks at their biggest clusters, they could not fire back as all cover is physics based and bullets could not find a trajectory to hit my grenadier.

Meanwhile fox with a silenced dragunov, using a thermal sight (it was night btw) would come from behind cover and shoot at enemies with near 100% stealth kill chance, since the gun was silenced, and it was night, she never got spotted again, as every target she shot would die imediatelly, unable to warn anyone about her, she killed about 4 soldiers in that fight with stealth kills while never revealing herself after being the first member to get spotted.

Really cool.

[maximustrajan23]

Originally posted by tanjo two guns:

Originally posted by Actionjackson:

you seem to be confused, it was a turn based game, they come with turns. We dont talk about stealth here, a stealth kill does not initiate TB mode in JA2 or JA3.

And he asked what happens in JA2, and in JA2 if enemy see you TB starts.

Yeah not sure. The one I played was Jagged Alliance: Back In Action and it's perfect. If the others are like that, that's what I'm talking about.

There is pausing, there is queing. But no turns. BTW I have 1k hours in X-Com 2 so I know turns when I see turns.

ok so back in action has nothing to do with actual Jagged Alliance mechanics and gameplay. Glad you enjoyed, but i hated that game, because, well it wasnt Jagged Alliance. it was Zoomer mutation.

[Dougems]

Um, the core change that makes it not "Jagged Alliance" is the "3" appended to the words "Jagged Alliance". Duh.

[Revan]

Originally posted by Actionjackson:

Deal with it, set overwatch, everyone runs into it. Win. Dont be so stiff about it all.

Not true, enemies evade very often your overwatch and going the longer way.

[Plake]

Originally posted by sooshon:

Well I'll trust this random internet comment over Ian Currie, the guy who envisioned the whole franchise.

Right? Just like Riddley "Scatt's" Prometheus / Covenant and Jim Cameron's Terminator Dark Fate, FINALLY some worthy successors by the original minds behind the classics! /s

[WYR3]

if you dont like it, why dont you make a mod when the game releases to add what you want?

[Dorok]

Originally posted by discoplumber:

Originally posted by Dorok:

If your comment is for Phantom Doctrine, a few missions/areas was requiring stealth but you could play most of campaign with combats but it was a bit artificial.

If your comment is for a TB game, no, if stealth exploit is available, it changes the difficulty tuning, many players will exploit it a lot because it's more efficient no matter how repetitive it is, and this has an impact on feedback and forum discussion, without mention the unavoidable temptation to use it when it's more tense. JAF was totally destroyed by addition of an efficient Stealth, so ridiculous.

If you don't want to spend time setting up an ambush and taking enemies out 1 by 1 then just don't do it.

Well Stealth kills is with JA2 mod, not JA2.

Still JAF and Phantom Doctrine are perfect example of the crap. And re read my post I already explained why so don't fake ignore.

But seems there's no stealth exploit in JA3, just one more crap design of JA2 mod.

[Hopper]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by discoplumber:

If you don't want to spend time setting up an ambush and taking enemies out 1 by 1 then just don't do it.

Well Stealth kills is with JA2 mod, not JA2.

Still JAF and Phantom Doctrine are perfect example of the crap. And re read my post I already explained why so don't fake ignore.

But seems there's no stealth exploit in JA3, just one more crap design of JA2 mod.

You're wrong.

There's a stealth and camo system in the base game. You can use suppressors, throwing knives, knives, hand to hand, and even tranquilliser darts. It's possible to clear an entire map using stealth, and you can even hunt the bloodcats and crepitus using stealth.

The mod expands on the stealth system by adding spy traits that work similar to how the spy worked on the old Commandos games. You can steal clothes, dress as an enemy, go talk to other enemies and distract them while another merc sneaks up for the kill.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Dorok:

Well Stealth kills is with JA2 mod, not JA2.

Still JAF and Phantom Doctrine are perfect example of the crap. And re read my post I already explained why so don't fake ignore.

But seems there's no stealth exploit in JA3, just one more crap design of JA2 mod.

There's a stealth and camo system in the base game. You can use suppressors, throwing knives, knives, hand to hand, and even tranquilliser darts. It's possible to clear an entire map using stealth, and you can even hunt the bloodcats and crepitus using stealth.

Ha ok thanks to confirm clearly JA2 design allows exploit heavily Stealth, so it's not the mod ok.

After to each their own, but stealth combat is ultra repetitive and just bad, and that you can ignore isn't a justification to let a boredom hole.

But it seems that perhaps JA3 didn't took that bad design road, and won't allow it.

[Hopper]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by Hopper:

There's a stealth and camo system in the base game. You can use suppressors, throwing knives, knives, hand to hand, and even tranquilliser darts. It's possible to clear an entire map using stealth, and you can even hunt the bloodcats and crepitus using stealth.

Ha ok thanks to confirm clearly JA2 design allows exploit heavily Stealth, so it's not the mod ok.

After to each their own, but stealth combat is ultra repetitive and just bad, and that you can ignore isn't a justification to let a boredom hole.

How is using stealth an exploit?
How is is repetitive?
How is it bad?
How is it boring?

How can you say its any of those things when you didn't even know it existed until 10 mins ago? Stealth is one of the hardest ways to play the game.

[Dorok]

Stealth combat: Move slowly, wait enemies move out to let progress undetected, backstab kill one enemy, and repeat.

Variations around that are ultra limited, even the enemies schedule management is weak variation and a lot of boring wait.

And even if I add move dead bodies so enemies isn't alerted, that's still ultra limited and very repetitive.

And I knew it existed in JA2 from some video, I only didn't remember if it was with mod or not. And no, JA2 is no perfect design, even less its mod.

[Noma]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Stealth combat: Move slowly, wait enemies move out to let progress undetected, backstab kill one enemy, and repeat.

Variations around that are ultra limited, even the enemies schedule management is weak variation and a lot of boring wait.

And even if I add move dead bodies so enemies isn't alerted, that's still ultra limited and very repetitive.

And I knew it existed in JA2 from some video, I only didn't remember if it was with mod or not. And no, JA2 is no perfect design, even less its mod.

Now imagine if people made stealth games.
I wonder how we played Metal Gear Solid, Tenchu, Hitman and Splinter Cell. Maybe we played them because their gameplay was nowhere as simple as you make it seems.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Noma:

Originally posted by Dorok:

Stealth combat: Move slowly, wait enemies move out to let progress undetected, backstab kill one enemy, and repeat.

Variations around that are ultra limited, even the enemies schedule management is weak variation and a lot of boring wait.

And even if I add move dead bodies so enemies isn't alerted, that's still ultra limited and very repetitive.

And I knew it existed in JA2 from some video, I only didn't remember if it was with mod or not. And no, JA2 is no perfect design, even less its mod.

Now imagine if people made stealth games.
I wonder how we played Metal Gear Solid, Tenchu and Splinter Cell. Maybe we played them because their gameplay was nowhere as simple as you make it seems.

Stealth gameplay is suited to real time, and it's bizarre you don't list any classic Stealth game.

TB is a totally different affair, collect all TB game that developed stealth seriously, then list the mechanics they found, do the same for combats, and Stealth has 10% of amount of combats mechanics and most probably a lot less.