Is minotaur bad?

[Butcher]

Bought and creating first party. Minotaur has +3 trait bonuses and -4 penalties. Can't wear boots and helmets (full helmets with best protection I assume?).

It seems to me that his kit is only good for barbarian since he won't wear armor. Any armor focused class is bad for him since he won't be able to wear heaviest helmets and won't wear boots at all. I don't think natural +1 to armor covers this disadvantage at all.

Orc just seems like a cooler minotaur.

[Dragonboy]

Minotaur isn't bad, but it works best for very specific builds.
Because of the increased STR, it is very easy to build a STR 9-10 minotaur, and some of the decreased stats are ones that you want to dump anyways.
Barbarian is indeed a great choice for them, since the extra mobility from Charge compensates for their lower base mobility because of their decreased DEX.

Regarding your concerns for armor, currently his natural armor does make him equal to the best boots that there are out there. However, this could indeed become a bigger disadvantage in the future.
Also, because of his high STR, he can very easily wear high value armor, even if his carreer doesn't give him much armor training.

[khargal]

Originally posted by Butcher:

Bought and creating first party. Minotaur has +3 trait bonuses and -4 penalties. Can't wear boots and helmets (full helmets with best protection I assume?).

It seems to me that his kit is only good for barbarian since he won't wear armor. Any armor focused class is bad for him since he won't be able to wear heaviest helmets and won't wear boots at all. I don't think natural +1 to armor covers this disadvantage at all.

Orc just seems like a cooler minotaur.

More or less. Now there are some good careers for minotaurs include barbarian (obviously), bodyguard (can easily capitalise heavy armor wearing), labourer, and witch.

[Dragonboy]

Originally posted by khargal:

More or less. Now there are some good careers for minotaurs include barbarian (obviously), bodyguard (can easily capitalise heavy armor wearing), labourer, and witch.

Personally I am not a big fan of Labourer, since hardiness is currently pretty bad until both it and Meditation finally get their much needed update.

But the other three are indeed good and the ones that I used for my full minotaur cruel run.
It was a team with bodyguard, barbarian, witch and an initiate to deal with the insane food cost from running a full minotaur team.

[khargal]

Originally posted by Dragonboy:

Originally posted by khargal:

More or less. Now there are some good careers for minotaurs include barbarian (obviously), bodyguard (can easily capitalise heavy armor wearing), labourer, and witch.

Personally I am not a big fan of Labourer, since hardiness is currently pretty bad until both it and Meditation finally get their much needed update.

But the other three are indeed good and the ones that I used for my full minotaur cruel run.
It was a team with bodyguard, barbarian, witch and an initiate to deal with the insane food cost from running a full minotaur team.

Might as well use Piligrim as it got both piety for food and animism to take Totemic might.
Never said Labourer is a good career, just that Minotaur fits it nice

[Dragonboy]

Originally posted by khargal:

Might as well use Piligrim as it got both piety for food and animism to take Totemic might.

I considered that, animalism worked really well on my witch, but another reason for picking the Initiate is to have access to the Unseal spell, because I didn't really have anyone else with lock picking capabilities in my team.

[khargal]

Originally posted by Dragonboy:

Originally posted by khargal:

Might as well use Piligrim as it got both piety for food and animism to take Totemic might.

I considered that, animalism worked really well on my witch, but another reason for picking the Initiate is to have access to the Unseal spell, because I didn't really have anyone else with lock picking capabilities in my team.

Ah, right. Yeah, unseal and lantern are great spells

[Butcher]

Originally posted by khargal:

Originally posted by Dragonboy:

Personally I am not a big fan of Labourer, since hardiness is currently pretty bad until both it and Meditation finally get their much needed update.

But the other three are indeed good and the ones that I used for my full minotaur cruel run.
It was a team with bodyguard, barbarian, witch and an initiate to deal with the insane food cost from running a full minotaur team.

Might as well use Piligrim as it got both piety for food and animism to take Totemic might.
Never said Labourer is a good career, just that Minotaur fits it nice

Picked Labourer over Barbarian in the end, knock down and hardiness sound good
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3148327993

[khargal]

Originally posted by Butcher:

Originally posted by khargal:

Might as well use Piligrim as it got both piety for food and animism to take Totemic might.
Never said Labourer is a good career, just that Minotaur fits it nice

Picked Labourer over Barbarian in the end, knock down and hardiness sound good
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3148327993

Sure knockdown is nice though some enemies are resistant to it

[agris]

Originally posted by Dragonboy:

Originally posted by khargal:

More or less. Now there are some good careers for minotaurs include barbarian (obviously), bodyguard (can easily capitalise heavy armor wearing), labourer, and witch.

Personally I am not a big fan of Labourer, since hardiness is currently pretty bad until both it and Meditation finally get their much needed update.

But the other three are indeed good and the ones that I used for my full minotaur cruel run.
It was a team with bodyguard, barbarian, witch and an initiate to deal with the insane food cost from running a full minotaur team.

How did the mino witch play? I assume you went 2h. Did you pick the touch paralysis spell? That one looks really useful, wish I had selected it on my frog witch.

[Dragonboy]

Originally posted by agris:

How did the mino witch play? I assume you went 2h. Did you pick the touch paralysis spell? That one looks really useful, wish I had selected it on my frog witch.

Really well, she was a very useful support in my party, with paralysis and curse to weaken enemies, the bear strength buff to buff allies, which worked extra well because I was playing a full Minotaur party so everyone except Girdean had advantage from the increased STR, and eventually also the escape spell to easily do rear attacks on enemies despite her low mobility.

And because she had good END and STR, even when her WP ran out, she would still be capable in swinging down enemies with her 2H greatsword.

Looking at the talent list, she will get even more powerful at level 5 too once that is in the game, because that will be a major buff to her spell power.

How did the frog witch go? Because while Batrax are usually the best choice for spellcaster classes, I feel like Witch might be the only exception because of how much buffs they can get from STR and in the future END. Which makes them better suited for a minotaur or a Varannari.

[agris]

Originally posted by Dragonboy:

Originally posted by agris:

How did the mino witch play? I assume you went 2h. Did you pick the touch paralysis spell? That one looks really useful, wish I had selected it on my frog witch.

Really well, she was a very useful support in my party, with paralysis and curse to weaken enemies, the bear strength buff to buff allies, which worked extra well because I was playing a full Minotaur party so everyone except Girdean had advantage from the increased STR, and eventually also the escape spell to easily do rear attacks on enemies despite her low mobility.

And because she had good END and STR, even when her WP ran out, she would still be capable in swinging down enemies with her 2H greatsword.

Looking at the talent list, she will get even more powerful at level 5 too once that is in the game, because that will be a major buff to her spell power.

How did the frog witch go? Because while Batrax are usually the best choice for spellcaster classes, I feel like Witch might be the only exception because of how much buffs they can get from STR and in the future END. Which makes them better suited for a minotaur or a Varannari.

witch frog isn't bad, but I'm still on my first party (old school) and there were things I would have done differently. last rites was a waste, touch paralysis would have been better. also instead of putting my level 2 discipline point into Malediction, I should have sunk it into Gateway to get root/teleport earlier. My early game was tough as I didn't have any dedicated CC (barb, burglar, pilgrim, witch) and didn't know the systems well enough to prioritize root/daze.

still, i'm pretty close to finishing all the content with this suboptimal party. 2 fights in the crypt, a few mechaedrones, the red axe renegade leader and valley of the dead are all that's left for me.

[khargal]

Originally posted by agris:

Originally posted by Dragonboy:

Really well, she was a very useful support in my party, with paralysis and curse to weaken enemies, the bear strength buff to buff allies, which worked extra well because I was playing a full Minotaur party so everyone except Girdean had advantage from the increased STR, and eventually also the escape spell to easily do rear attacks on enemies despite her low mobility.

And because she had good END and STR, even when her WP ran out, she would still be capable in swinging down enemies with her 2H greatsword.

Looking at the talent list, she will get even more powerful at level 5 too once that is in the game, because that will be a major buff to her spell power.

How did the frog witch go? Because while Batrax are usually the best choice for spellcaster classes, I feel like Witch might be the only exception because of how much buffs they can get from STR and in the future END. Which makes them better suited for a minotaur or a Varannari.

witch frog isn't bad, but I'm still on my first party (old school) and there were things I would have done differently. last rites was a waste, touch paralysis would have been better. also instead of putting my level 2 discipline point into Malediction, I should have sunk it into Gateway to get root/teleport earlier. My early game was tough as I didn't have any dedicated CC (barb, burglar, pilgrim, witch) and didn't know the systems well enough to prioritize root/daze.

still, i'm pretty close to finishing all the content with this suboptimal party. 2 fights in the crypt, a few mechaedrones, the red axe renegade leader and valley of the dead are all that's left for me.

Last rites is not waste if you go minotaur witch, trust me

[agris]

Originally posted by khargal:

Originally posted by agris:

witch frog isn't bad, but I'm still on my first party (old school) and there were things I would have done differently. last rites was a waste, touch paralysis would have been better. also instead of putting my level 2 discipline point into Malediction, I should have sunk it into Gateway to get root/teleport earlier. My early game was tough as I didn't have any dedicated CC (barb, burglar, pilgrim, witch) and didn't know the systems well enough to prioritize root/daze.

still, i'm pretty close to finishing all the content with this suboptimal party. 2 fights in the crypt, a few mechaedrones, the red axe renegade leader and valley of the dead are all that's left for me.

Last rites is not waste if you go minotaur witch, trust me

Well, I really meant it's a waste *early* on. Now that my witch has +SP items, and Rank II Malediction, last rites only costs 2 WP and regularly does 5-8 damage which is good. Early on with low SP, the opportunity cost of Last Rites vs say the touch paralysis spell seems to favor the touch spell.

I can see how harvesting health for a witch played as a spellsword would be useful. Right now the spell gives 1d4 HP & WP only when you kill a creature with it, right? I think returning Xd2 HP & WP, where X is player level, would help the spell scale a bit better.

[khargal]

Originally posted by agris:

Originally posted by khargal:

Last rites is not waste if you go minotaur witch, trust me

Well, I really meant it's a waste *early* on. Now that my witch has +SP items, and Rank II Malediction, last rites only costs 2 WP and regularly does 5-8 damage which is good. Early on with low SP, the opportunity cost of Last Rites vs say the touch paralysis spell seems to favor the touch spell.

I can see how harvesting health for a witch played as a spellsword would be useful. Right now the spell gives 1d4 HP & WP only when you kill a creature with it, right? I think returning Xd2 HP & WP, where X is player level, would help the spell scale a bit better.

Well, you know all this times when there is enemy with 1-3 hp enemy left and ya reallly need that surehit damage to kill them. WP and HP recovery is nice cherry on the top

[stretch]

Originally posted by Dragonboy:

Minotaur isn't bad, but it works best for very specific builds.
Because of the increased STR, it is very easy to build a STR 9-10 minotaur, and some of the decreased stats are ones that you want to dump anyways.

Just be aware that you can easily get +1Str through the head mission and also I think that at level 6 most classes get a default stat point which if you have a mino is quite probably going to be strength as well. So maybe don't start with over 8. By level 6 the head mission might well be trivial and so long ago nobody cares. Maybe getting 9 or 10 really early is the best thing. I dunno but just beware that depending on your class choice you might well be wasting one of the few stat points you get if you go 9 or more in character creation.

Last rites is mentioned above and I went with it too but soon realised it actually kicks off very rarely because it is indeed kill shot only. I love lifetaps as a rule but it just doesn't give enough or often enough to make any great difference. It might well be the best option depending how you want to start but it soon becomes somewhat meaningless. Lack of damage and lack of kill shots maybe offset by it being cheap to use?
It was good at first so maybe if it just gets you through the first levels it's worth it but 3+ I don't think I used it at all.