Chance of missing

[Glidas]

Is anyone else getting a ton of misses? My entire party will sometimes go multiple rounds missing every enemy. While the enemy will only get one or two misses the whole interaction. My difficulty is the second from the left. Is there a way to fix this

[Mixxer5]

Yep, same. I've played a ton of RPGs and it's first time I feel like RNG is messed up. Sure, with randomness it's hard to say if it's not just bad luck... But 10 attacks in a row missing when lowest chance is 50%?

[DavidBVal]

I assure you the code is right.

But from what I know, many games "cheat" to avoid bad streaks.

Considering doing the same for lower difficulties...

[Dragonboy]

Originally posted by DavidBVal:

But from what I know, many games "cheat" to avoid bad streaks.

Considering doing the same for lower difficulties...

At that point I would just prefer that you get some increased hit chance overal on the lower difficulties instead of having the game cheat on you.

[Mixxer5]

Originally posted by DavidBVal:

I assure you the code is right.

But from what I know, many games "cheat" to avoid bad streaks.

Considering doing the same for lower difficulties...

I'll post some log screenshot later on. It's not just a single combat, rolls really seem to gravitate towards higher values continuosly.

[Dragonboy]

Originally posted by Mixxer5:

I'll post some log screenshot later on. It's not just a single combat, rolls really seem to gravitate towards higher values continuosly.

It can sometimes feel that way because you remember the bad rolls more then the good ones. But there are plenty of times that people got lucky too and got a bunch of hits in a row.

[Red Mage]

I'm reduced to save scamming at this point. The misses are just laughable and when you finally hit enemies, you do little damage compared to most things that roam around the starting area even. Also how slow is the level progression?

[DavidBVal]

Random rarely appears to be random, it seems to be rigged.

Try this:

https://rolladie.net/#!numbers=100&high=100&length=1&sets=&addfilters=&last_roll_only=false&totals_only=false

Very easy to get streaks of 5-6 rolls above 70.

[Tenath]

Depends on the quality of the underlying (P)RNG. Basic LCG can have terrible uniformity, further aggravated by fetching full integer values and reducing them to desired numeric range via modulo (just throwing out the rest of the generated bits).

Wish more game devs would have used shuffling for their rolls instead. This would at least guarantee that every value would get it's showtime every X rolls.

[Syrris]

To mitigate the bad feeling (and combat swinginess) that comes with miss streaks, consider implementing something like grazes from AoW:Planetfall. If you miss by 25 points or less, you still do half damage; status/secondary effects from the attack either don't apply (all-or-nothing stuff like knockdown/knockback) or have their application chance reduced accordingly (burning, frozen, etc).

[AVNlover67]

Originally posted by Glidas:

Is anyone else getting a ton of misses? My entire party will sometimes go multiple rounds missing every enemy. While the enemy will only get one or two misses the whole interaction. My difficulty is the second from the left. Is there a way to fix this

That's why I'm waiting for cheats or mods. I hate having a bunch of misses when the enemy gets to hit me more. Not fun for me. I'm on the lowest difficulty. The difficulty only seems to affect armor and health of enemies, from what I read.

[Reath]

The combat would be better if it was less random and more predictable. It currently has a very tabletop like high randomness, but more predictable outcomes are more fun in video games.

[Berserkr]

Originally posted by AVNlover67:

That's why I'm waiting for cheats or mods. I hate having a bunch of misses when the enemy gets to hit me more. Not fun for me. I'm on the lowest difficulty. The difficulty only seems to affect armor and health of enemies, from what I read.

You can edit the save file, it's in the game folder open it with Notepad, just do ctrl + f for your characters names, all their stuff is above the name

[Zeel Ara]

Every game of chance has people who swear that the randomness isn't random. Outside video games people look to superstition instead of blaming imaginary bugs or evil plans by the developer.

Humans are inherently incapable of understanding random distribution. Our brains are focused on finding patterns, even where there aren't any. Between apophenia, gambler's fallacy, and negativity bias, the end result is that every game of chance in the history of humanity has had people swearing that the outcome was controlled by something other than chance.

Few cases were more pronounced than in XCOM, where some players spent literal years arguing that they were absolutely positive that the hit rolls were coded to work against them. They brought all kinds of anecdotal evidence to show that they missed 95% hit chances so often that it was proof that the game fudge the dice. And guess what; it turned out to be true. The game did in fact fudge the dice, but in the players' *favour*. Even with special treatment and considerations, some players were convinced that the game was working against them.

Some reading on the matter:

Apophenia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

Negativity Bias:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias

Two papers, the first one representing the established understanding and the second looking for flaws in the same. The conclusion for both remains that people are decent at understanding randomness in short and controlled stretches but fall completely apart as soon as there's any kind of distraction or the duration lasts more than a few minutes. The emotional investment of playing a game, combined with the long duration of those experiences, means that we as human beings are entirely unsuited to judge any kind of randomness in that context.

https://www.greo.ca/Modules/EvidenceCentre/Details/perceptions-of-randomness-why-three-heads-are-better-than-four

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5933241/

Originally posted by Reath:

The combat would be better if it was less random and more predictable. It currently has a very tabletop like high randomness, but more predictable outcomes are more fun in video games.

I partially agree. No matter how much we know that our perception of random is flawed it still feels bad, and it's a lot of mental work to constantly remind ourselves that the patterns we're seeing are a product of our deeply flawed instincts.

I personally prefer grazes to misses for that reason. It's a lot easier to swallow unlucky rolls at inconvenient times when they aren't accompanied by an annoying "miss" text and a sound effect to remind you how bad you just got screwed.

It's subjective taste though. I like it when game systems try to reduce the impact of bad rolls a little. Others would prefer the game to reduce the amount of bad rolls instead (or as well). Some prefer the raw and brutal version we have here. Can't please everyone.

[redwitch]

that's why I prefer games like Urtuk the Desolation which have a minimal RNG (it applies only to ranged attacks, for melee attacks you have guaranteed hits so the player can calculate exactly what is going to happen and can focus on the tactical aspect like positioning, elevation, special attacks, initiative, armor mitigating damage, stamina etc). It's very deterministic but imho much more enjoyable without being less challenging. In my opinion it's a much better system as the player can focus on the tactical aspect of combat and not rely on what a RNG, working as intended or not, produces. I've played a lot of games having some kind of RNG like Battle Brothers, and though it's a fantastic game the RNG can be so frustrating and infuriating at times that I can fully understand people avoiding it.

As for the argument that humans don't understand random distribution, it may well be, ther are a lot of things humans don't understand (or don't want to understand because understanding it is against their interests), but on the other hand it's humans who are playing these kind of games which imho should be fun in the first place. Having to constantly reload because of some random calculations is simply not fun, for a lot of people at least, I assume.

But, since I don't think that the dev is going to completely alter the system, I think that implementing one as suggested above (the grace system in AOW3) might be a feasible option.

[Török Szultán]

I love this game so far but I agree that the chance of missing is too high. I have to reload a lot of fights.