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It's proof the old formula worked so well, and that's coming from someone that had no nostalgia for these games whatsoever.
Nintendo decided that they didn't need two Mario RPG series, so the Mario&Luigi series got that spot while Paper Mario went more gimmicky. I also loved the original two and this game, and am disappointed that we don't get more like this. Origami King is better than their other recent tries, but it is no Thousand Year Door.
I know there's a lot of discourse between pre and post Sticker Star fans, but I personally think both fans are correct to complain.
Nintendo unnecessarily changed Paper Mario to the point that it might as well be a different series. Heck, not only different, but essentially the polar opposite of what it used to be. It wasn't capitalizing off a popular IP, like what Cartoon Network does now, but really just a total lack of listening to fans. Listening to fans is why Luigi's Mansion, Mario Party, and Zelda returned to their roots, and those have been some of the Switch's most well performing titles.
I'm still not entirely sure who / how many is / are at fault for dumbing down Paper Mario, but regardless, it is actively worsening this series and I think a creative change NEEDS to happen.
The change in direction seems to stem from both Miyamoto and the new quality assurance team for Nintendo. Miyamoto was reported as saying they felt it unnecessary to have two Mario RPG series, so they took Paper Mario down Gimmick Valley and let the Mario & Luigi handheld games take over as the designated Mario RPG.
It is also said that Miyamoto prefers to focus more on game mechanics and is less interested in the story of the Mario games. His sway in the industry may be influencing the state of the Paper Mario franchise.
The quality assurance team seems to be a newer group that is in some way dedicated to preserving the current cast of Mario characters. Paper Mario, with its focus on new storytelling, added a bunch of characters into the franchise and it would seem they don't want any more liberties taken with that. Either they didn't like the characters, felt there were too many being made, or felt they weren't representative of the kind of characters they really want in Mario. Not really sure. Preserving the current cast of main characters apparently means over-correcting and keeping fun new ones at bay. Playing it safe as it were.
This is what I have learned from others regarding the subject as I cry each time they release a new Paper Mario and it is again not at all what I loved so much. I can't wait to get into playing Bug Fables and hope more companies will pick up this style of game.
I see no reason not to have 2 RPG's in the Mario series, they both stood out in their own way and played differently. To take one and change it is a slap to the fans and taking out the RPG part was a big mistake.
They could of easily done another spin off to test this instead of touching one of the existing series.
I completely agree. I feel like there is probably a lot to the story we won't know, but sadly I doubt they will ever do us the kindness of giving straight answers and addressing it.
That's why I'm disappointed with the newer Paper Mario games. The original Paper Mario and Paper Mario: TTYD both had such an amazing memorable cast of characters, great locations, and a great story.
I unfortunately haven't gotten a chance to play any of them past Super Paper Mario, but from what I've seen and heard, they don't seem to have as much charm or they take on some form of gimmick using stickers. I did really enjoy Super Paper Mario and its story was fun and interesting experience, but the gameplay left me wanting a more traditional Paper Mario RPG experience.
Also, I really feel that they try to force the point across that the world is all paper in the newer Paper Mario games. For instance, I've never really liked the paper outline style for the characters in the new games. I think Paper Mario: TTYD got the aesthetic on point though. And if I remember correctly, the worlds in the first game actually don't do anything to point out that the world is paper, aside from some of the abilities given to you in TTYD, which was fine.
This is why Bug Fables, for me, was an extremely unexpected release. The gameplay felt similar enough and it brought it's own charm to the rather rare and unique paper rpg games. It definitely was game of the year for me in 2019.
I tried Super Paper Mario, but didn't get very far. The aesthetic choices in the game didn't do it for me, particularly because I loved the first games for their partners and I didn't feel a connection to the partner in Super Paper Mario. Flipping between perspectives was also just meh to me, but I know a lot of people enjoyed it.
I also have not personally played any of the Paper Mario games beyond the first 3, but to my understanding each has been better than the last at least. Sticker Star seems to stand out as an abomination on the franchise as it became a full gimmick-fest with its stickers. Not only that, but having each attack cost a sticker, even a basic jump or hammer to my understanding, seems like a great way to remove fun particularly for those like me who have a hard time using items because they tend to hoard things, haha.
Seemingly Color Splash had more story than Sticker Star with more interesting color filling mechanics that were less restrictive. This has made it more accepted, but still certainly lacking in that RPG charm.
And now we have Origami King which got my hopes up with its first trailer that seemed like it was finally focusing on a story. From what I've heard, the writing in the game is good and the mechanics are okay. We just can't seem to get back to those RPG roots though and the inability or lack of desire to add a cast of fresh characters/partners will continue to hurt the series for fans of the originals. I would presume to those new to the franchise, Origami King will probably be pretty fun.
If the true reason has to do with not adding more new characters, I would be fascinated to see a retelling of the originals bringing back that old cast. No new characters needed. I also cannot recall any focus on the world being paper in the first game. Perhaps the first mini-boss tower with the Goomba King and moments like falling from the balcony of the Goomba house where you float like paper. It was less in your face and not really mechanic driven from what I remember. Much more of an aesthetic choice.
Still need to get around to playing Bug Fables, but I should be able to tonight after work! I'm really excited to see what they did. :)
It also didn't help that, like Super Paper Mario, those two games (to me) also felt like bootleg versions of official Mario games that already existed:
Sticker Star - 3D Land
Colour Splash - 3D World
Only without any of the imagination, creativity or polish those games had. It also completely removed any and all forms of EXP and levelling up the first 2 (or 3) games had making battles completely pointless. May as well play the mainline platformers instead since (to me) they're everything Sticker Star and Colour Splash tried to be, and then some.
Never did I feel this way about either of the first two Paper Mario games - they just felt like RPGs that wanted to expand upon Mario's world, tell a unique story based on the Mario series and use a creative battle system that helped make it stand out from other games in the genre. TTYD especially felt very unique from other Mario games and especially other RPGs in terms of gameplay, settings and writing and was much better because of it.
I know this style of gameplay is not out of ideas and there are ways these games can evolve and improve even further - Bug Fables is proof of this.
Super Paper Mario was weird because it was more of a platformer than rpg. I think flipside, the perspective changes, and it's stray from its rpg roots are what made it not as popular as the first two, but I think the story would have still held up if it was made in TTYD's form.
I still want to try Sticker Star, but I haven't gotten around to it. I tend to either hoard items or be extremely wasteful of them when I play the games, which makes me feel like Sticker Star will leave me in this weird middle ground where I have to keep finding stickers to use or I might just not use them enough each battle haha.
Color Splash and Origami King look like they're a step closer to the right direction though, aside from Color Splash having too many toad characters, from what I've heard. I'd personally be ok if they brought back some of the old cast if they wanted to focus less on making new characters.
As for the for paper aesthetic being more in your face. It doesn't really happen in the first 3 games. I guess what I mean would be that in the first 3 games, you know it's supposed to be like a story book, while in Sticker Star and Color Splash the aesthetic is more in your face.
The best way I can explain it would be with two pictures of Rogueport in the original and modern style.
https://twitter.com/Rafaknight_rk/status/1148916838392352774/photo/1
https://www.mariowiki.com/images/7/70/PMTTYD_Rogueport_Plaza.png
Good luck in Bug Fables though! It's a really fun adventure closer to the style of the first two Paper Mario games with some of their own gameplay twist. I think you'll like it.
Super Paper Mario felt like a weird experiment with the series. It didn't seem like they really had a unified vision for what they wanted to do. For those that loved the first two it didn't really feel like a Paper Mario game. I loved the first two and enjoyed Super Paper Mario, but it was no where near as fun as the original and TTYD.
You bring up a good point. I've never really noticed that Sticker Star and Color Splash were so similar to the concepts of 3D Land and 3D World. Nintendo has such a good franchise, but its painful watching it not meet its potential.
Bug fables is great though.
I would have been fine with TOK if it had a story I could actually enjoy. Instead it only hints at such a story and then withholds it. On the surface it has a story, but in the end it is only paper thin instead of the complex multilayered stories we had in the past.
I played through it start to finish and enjoyed almost every moment of it. Last year, I got The Thousand Year Door on the GameCube and was genuinely surprised when I played it on my Wii - it was one of the best gaming experiences I ever had. Each chapter felt very different from the last, character dialogue and development was top notch with the right balance of light-hearted humour and dark, serious moments along with a genuinely thrilling and exciting climax.
I mentioned earlier how Sticker Star and Colour Splash felt like bootleg versions of games that already existed, but when I look at The Origami King in trailers, online gameplay footage or whatever, I see a game that feels like it has no idea what it's trying to be. It tries to be an adventure game but the battles are all turn based like an RPG. It tries to be an RPG but the battles have no purpose since you still don't get exp or level up like a proper RPG.
All this is coming from someone that has absolutely no nostalgia for these games whatsoever. As much as I enjoyed Bug Fables, while better than the other Paper Mario games, it still doesn't top Thousand Year Door for me.