[Spoilers] Just 100%'d the game. Huge feedback thread

[Brosephski]

To start, I just want to say that I absolutely loved this game. I consider myself only a moderate fan of the Paper Mario series - the original 2 are probably in my top 10 favorite games of all time, but I don't know them front-to-back like some. With that said, I feel like this game has surpassed both for me. I was constantly surprised and delighted by the charm, iteration, and improvements to the Paper Mario formula that Bug Fables consistently delivered throughout the adventure. I literally could not put this game down; the only thing I that could pull me away from this game in the last week was sleep, food, my girlfriend, and the opportunity to buy it for a friend. Needless to say, I'd recommend this game, as is, to anyone.

In fact, I loved this game so much, I can't help but want to see it succeed, too. I'm rooting for Moonsprout. I think they've created a hit. This game is just one Switch release, Arlo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkv4SSE0Puo

or influencer video, big moment away from reaching its audience and exploding into the limelight. My only fear is that some of the (for me, minor) issues in the game might cause a slip before the finish line. A Dunkey vid that comes across as middling instead of overwhelmingly positive. A review that harps on a pet peeve that makes the game sound average instead of amazing. I LOVED this game. I just played through it 100%. I want to help. This is my feedback.

BUGS

• Controller analog is inexplicably janky. Navigating the menu with an analog joystick is slow, as rapid presses are skipped. Action commands that require L/R joystick movement are essentially impossible. In my case, I used a basic XBOX 360 controller; the joystick functioned as described, but the dpad is so bad (controller design fault, not Moonsprout) I could not use it for those action commands either. I had to go into the Steam Controller settings to have the game read my analog stick as a dpad to fix my issues. This absolutely must be fixed for a console release.
  
• Following up, I believe the XBOX Dpad doesn't work with rapid L/R action commands because intermediate up/down inputs invalidate the command. For example, L/R/L/R is valid, but L/U/R/D/L is invalid. If this is true, maybe make it less strict? People will be playing this game on all sorts of controllers, including joycons.
  
• In the Termite Kingdom town center, with the bomb shop and hotel, my item detector was ringing, indicating something of relevance. I went to the area outside of the coliseum, noticed my item detector ringing again, and found an item. When I went back to the town center, my item detector no longer rang. After resorting to a guide, I learned that there was a discovery in the area, related to the roof of the bomb shop. I believe the item detector behavior is screwy in this area.
  
• Characters should perform their field actions in the direction they were last moving in. This is currently true for left and right, but not for up/down/diagonal. To replicate, move any character up, and immediately press B (they should perform the action "up"). Then, try moving up, waiting for 2 seconds, and then press B. They will randomly(?) act in either left or right. This feels bad.
  
  EDIT: I just found out that this is intentional. I am surprised. I can understand wanting to prioritize facing direction after time has passed, but I don't think this has worked. These characters are still facing up, but fire their abilities left or right, changing their direction. Also, consider that many puzzles involve moving platforms. You prime Vi to shoot up by walking up onto a moving platform, sit still as it carries you, and end up whiffing as the beemerang flies west. Please reconsider this change.
  
  
• Pressing B while loading into a new area can queue up the input in a way that feels awkward. This isn't necessarily a bug, but it feels bad. It would be preferable if inputs were ignored when moving between areas.
  
• Achievements don't seem to unlock properly on Steam. They unlock in-game, in the records tab, but the Steam Achievement is often not triggered. Instead, they all unlock the next time you open your save. To be honest, most of my feedback is aimed at the Switch release (which I believe will be the biggest platform for this game), which doesn't have achievements, but XBOX and Playstation might have the same issue depending on how the game is ported.

UI

• The quit button should not be in the settings menu. I am also a programmer, so I understand how a settings menu can turn into a "this is where the buttons go" menu. But, this isn't how users expect to interact with your game. A quit to menu option in same row as your inventory/medal/log/settings options would be appropriate.
  
• Unless I am seriously mistaken, I believe you cannot sort your inventory nor medals. This is especially bad for medals. Only after dozens of hours of play does the default order for medals begin to make sense. The average player will not collect every medal and will not understand how they are grouped; they will instead be frustrated that everything is all over the place. Being able to sort alphabetically (for both inventory and medals) and by mp would do wonders.
  
• When navigating the records/logbook, its very easy to accidentally tap L/R and totally change tabs. This will lose your place; if you were looking at the 44th recipe, for example, and accidentally switched tabs, you'll have to switch back to recipes and scroll all the way down. I recommend either having players select their tab with an A press and preventing them from switching until they press B, or having the game remember their location on all tabs. Items/Key Items has the same issue, but the lists aren't as long, so its less severe.

CRYSTAL BERRIES

• When crystal berries are on screen or buried, the item finder medal gives a notification. This is not the case for the berries held by the Hint Bug and the creature hiding in the hole in the Forsaken Lands. I found this really unintuitive, though I don't think it was a bug. At least there are hints.

COOKING

• I love how recipes can be made in multiple ways, but it is frustrating that they don't all save in your recipe book. I understand not wanting to force players to create all possible recipes to complete their cook book, but it becomes difficult to remember what I've discovered. It would be nice if, after discovering a recipe, I could open it and it would show me which additional recipes I've discovered, perhaps showing which other ones I haven't found with "???" listings
  
• Additionally, it would be nice if there was a recipe preview while cooking. If I select one ingredient, and I am hovering over a honey, perhaps a box in the middle of the screen could show an image of a glazed honey (or a "?" if I hadn't cooked one yet). For two items, the box could appear only after I had selected my first item.
  
• This is low totem pole, but a system for cooking in bulk would be convenient.
  
• I am personally disappointed I could not combine Berry Jam with Dry Bread ;-p

IN-GAME HELP

• I realize players don't want to be hand-held, and developers don't want to hold hands. But this is a surprisingly big game that can feel overwhelming to explore for completionists. When you're missing that last medal, there is a hint bug in Golden Settlement that will nudge you in the right direction. But what about discoveries, recipes, super bosses, and quests? Consider expanding the hint bug's utility.
  
• Or maybe a different bugs could fulfill those roles. I think it would be fun if, for example, the Gourmet Bug visited the roach kingdom, hated their food, and complained by giving missing recipe hints to the player.
  
• Tangy berries are especially expensive/rare and have several recipes associated with them. I was very pleased when I found Kut's Master, learned that he gave hotel guests a complimentary meal, and that meal taught one of the recipes. Perhaps, when spending a night at the hotel, the other 3-4 Tangy Berry recipes could have a chance at being the free meal (excluding Queens Dish and Carpaccio of course). Tangy Berries are most comparable to Black Cherries, which have their recipes spelled out (by the Gourmet Bug on Metal Island) too
  
• The librarian could let the player know where they are missing discoveries
  
• The bounty bug could help players find the path to the super bosses/bounties I've just been informed/reminded that there is a bug team that gives hints about bounties in-game. In hindsight, this is perfect; this is exactly the kind of help some other things, like discoveries, are "missing" (subjective, I know - see below).
  
• There are tons of options for bugs to help with quests, specifically the ones that don't appear on boards
  
• Maki could maybe assist with general achievements?
  
• These options could be opened up perhaps in the post-game.
  
• As an aside, I barely had to use a guide - the team did a great job at providing natural hints and avenues for discovery. But I was disappointed I resorted to them. Obviously, I could have just not used a guide, but I knew I loved the game and wanted to see everything it had to offer. When you've successfully figured out nearly all the clues and found almost all the recipes through intuition, observation, and in-game hints, yet lapse on just the last few, your options are to try literally everything or use a guide. Neither are fun. Too much help might ruin the fun of the adventure; I don't envy your jobs as game developers.

KABBU

• When Kabbu cuts grass, there is a half-second window when you can't walk through the grass as it despawns. I think it would feel better if the grass lost its collision immediately.
  
• Sometimes Kabbu fails to destroy rocks he smashes into. I can't figure out why, but I think it might happen when you try to smash a rock immediately after loading into a new area
  
• It's hard to tell where Kabbu is when digging through a wall. Some sort of shadow/x-ray effect so you could still see Kabbu would be appreciated
  
• Bouncing rocks would be on this list, but the recent arrow change fixed it, imo. Good job team.

VI

• Vi is most affected by the field action direction bug listed in the BUGS section.
  
• If possible, I would increase the leniency for her beemerang before it ricochets after hitting a wall. Letting it clip even a little more would make activating some switches a lot easier.

LEIF

• There are several water sources that cannot be made into ice platforms. At least one is in the swamp (I've forgotten which specifically). Maybe there are very good reasons for this, but it feels unintuitive as a player.
  
• When moving up on ice paths, it is hard to see where Leif is as the party blocks him. Similar to Kabbu, maybe create an effect that helps the player see the ice path and Leif
  
• Excessive ice path navigation will be criticized. Perhaps reconsider the speed at which players can make the paths? Maybe have Leif make 3 at a time. Maybe let the player hold down the button to continually make ice under his feet.
  
• Very shortly after getting the ability to make ice paths, you are presented with a puzzle that involves flowing water (and flowing ice paths). Despite flowing water existing throughout Bugaria, this mechanic is never revisted. If this single puzzle is preventing the implementation of a faster ice path system, I would argue for it to be removed.

CHOMPY

• Would it be the end of the world if you could change Chompy's ribbons on the fly? I personally must have missed the hints that they were even for her. I literally said, after purchasing the pink ribbon, "I wish I could put this on Chompy!" but was also resolute to never put her back in her cage. You can swap medals, so why not ribbons?

GENERAL

• I can see people complaining about the movement speed. After looking up the history of this game, I noticed there used to be a running speed medal. Was it removed due to bugs or puzzle breaking concerns? This might be worth re-looking into.
  
• It's disappointing that the Final Boss doesn't have a HARD MODE reward, like all the other bosses. If there wasn't a post game, this would make sense, but it'd be nice to have something, even if it wasn't a medal or even a particularly good one.
  
• In a lot of the cutscenes, particularly before the groups fight, Vi is forced to the front of the group. This was jarring for me, as most of my playthrough was spent with Kabbu in front; he resonated with me as the group leader the most. If the cutscenes could be tweeked so that your party keeps formation, similar to a lot of other dialogue moments in-game, that would be fantastic.
  
• Consider letting the compass be used in more places. I realize it doesn't make sense for Kabbu to be able to dig through the outer area of Metal Island, or all the way through the Bee Kingdom as it is suspended in air, but I think most players would forgive the lapse in logic, if they even notice.
  
• When shopping, medals don't show their MP cost. Buying a new medal is exciting enough, so I never felt discouraged from trying, but people will probably want to know how hard it is to equip before purchase.

Sorry if this comes out terribly formatted, I tried my best. I might add more to the list later. Thank you Moonsprout for the fantastic game! I hope more people discover it and enjoy it as much as I did.

[Fracture94]

Those are some great and detailed ideas, hope the devs take notice of this because the game is absolutely fantastic, so any improvement will make it even better.

This is by far my fav indie RPG. Just completed it 100% and it was a blast to play, much better than Paper Mario in every aspect (except maybe the graphics, which still are beautiful, but cant compare with Paper Mario's charm). I have some questions after finishing the game though:

- Did you get anything by beating the Boss Rush? I thought on trying them, and i did some battles during the game, but never completed them, and after like 60 hours of game time i think its time to let Team Snakemouth rest xD.
- Is there any DLC planned? I remember reading about it on another thread, about some hints in a secret computer in the Lab, so it will be nice if the devs can confirm this.

[unendingEmpathy]

For the super bosses thing, there are 2 hints for them: One is the whole Bounty missions that tell you of the bosses and where they are, and then Team Slacker in those areas specifically tell you where the super bosses are, like in the Explorer Association, they tell you of the Seedling King's location being across the river in the area near them. I think for the Super Bosses, they're pretty well hinted with Slacker telling specifically where they are and the Bounty missions telling you the general area to sweep around.
As for the recipes, I think that the beetle guy gives pretty good hints to various recipes, and there may be more NPCs that give you hints to stuff and some recipes can probably be guessed, like you are told that one recipe involves mixing a Spicy Bomb with a sleep dart to make a sleeping bomb, but I don't think you are told that you can use other status-making items to make other status items, like replacing the sleep dart with magic ice or shocking berry to make ice bombs or numbing bombs.
That being said I have something else to add in the pile of changes I want that I recently discovered: I kinda would appreciate it if there are recipes that can be substituted with different items that it would tell me what items can be substituted. Like for example if I recall correctly, someone said they used that one shocking mushroom to make something that would have required a shocking berry but it worked out anyway, and I'm now wondering what other items can be substituted similarly because the book doesn't tell you and you're not hinted that recipes can sometimes use a substitute item as they only give you the "intended" recipe

[Brosephski]

Publicado originalmente por Fracture94:

- Did you get anything by beating the Boss Rush? I thought on trying them, and i did some battles during the game, but never completed them, and after like 60 hours of game time i think its time to let Team Snakemouth rest xD.

I also didn't complete them. Getting far enough through one unlocks EX Boss Rush, which I never tried. I got nothing for beating Mini-boss rush.

Publicado originalmente por Robby Shenanigans:

Team Slacker in those areas specifically tell you where the super bosses are

Aaaah I must have missed them. Do they leave? I didn't tackle most of them until after I got Leif's power to do the Seedling King. The one boss I had trouble finding (and used a guide for) was the one in the Desert. The others, imo, where very obvious, but the bounty listing said the boss was in the "Lost Sands" when it was really in Stream Mountain. This threw me off.

If there was a group of bugs in town that told me that and I still ignored them, I guess that's on me.

Publicado originalmente por Robby Shenanigans:

like you are told that one recipe involves mixing a Spicy Bomb with a sleep dart to make a sleeping bomb, but I don't think you are told that you can use other status-making items to make other status items, like replacing the sleep dart with magic ice or shocking berry to make ice bombs or numbing bombs.

This is by design. The recipes, like most things in the game, are really well done. The game follows a fairly consistent set of rules, and teaches you them through the character interactions. You are explicitly told about and shown a sleep bomb early on. This is a pretty strong hint, and I'd imagine most players would be inclined to experiment with other statuses immediately. At the same time, you are shown a sleepy cake, implying there could be other types of cakes. If you still don't understand how, for example, there might not be other types of bombs, you will be shown them at the Termite Capitol and through combat earlier in the Wasp Kingdom.

The hints the game provides, afaik, are:

• Try combining opposites (ie Burly and Spicy)
  
• Try combining similar things (ie Aphid Egg + Aphid Dew, Danger Shroom + Danger Spud
  
• Items in shops hint at their recipes. Not all items can be crafted, but seeing Burly Tea will make you think "Can I make that?"
  
• Enemies using items
  
• Not explicitly stated, but there is some implied real-world logic to the cooking. Find stuff through experimentation
  
• Character dialogue reveals some recipes. I do love how not everything is explicitly stated though; the Gourmet Bug will tell you to combine Squash with a defensive berry, and you're left to assume the Burly/Spicy paradigm continues, implying Squash+Spicy Berry is a thing.

I agree, the hints are all there. But, even with the hints, the issue is that the average player will probably not be able to connect the dots on 100% of them. This is totally fine, the average player probably has no interest in 100%-ing the game. But, for someone like me, who really wanted to see it all, I would have loved the opportunity at more hints in-game.

As an example of something that I missed: I didn't catch that a Hustle Berry was a Coffee bean, used to make coffee. Doy.

Publicado originalmente por Robby Shenanigans:

That being said I have something else to add in the pile of changes I want that I recently discovered: I kinda would appreciate it if there are recipes that can be substituted with different items that it would tell me what items can be substituted.

Even more confusing, the recipe that gets put in your cook book isn't necessarily the one you used to make the recipe initially. On my quest to complete my cook book as much as possible without a guide, I remembered seeing Honey Ice Cream in the shop at the factory. So, I combined Honey+Ice, and it worked! Reading the recipe, however, called for Ice Cream. At the time I had never even seen plain Ice Cream. Aphids seemed to be the cow equivalent, so I used their Dew+Ice and got what I wanted.

Publicado originalmente por Robby Shenanigans:

the book doesn't tell you and you're not hinted that recipes can sometimes use a substitute item as they only give you the "intended" recipe

In my original feedback, I asked that they expand the recipe book to include all the additional recipes. This would be really nice, especially since I have trouble remembering some of the more convenient ones.

[unendingEmpathy]

Yeah, Team Slacker stays in the areas that the superbosses are in until you beat them, then they leave that area. The one that I will say is confusing is that I don't think they specify that the area where the boss in the Forgotten Lands is is directly west from the pipe area, but they at least gave the general hint of picking the west-going option somewhere, and I guess the pipe area makes sense cause the other options just loops you around, but the rest of the tips of where the bosses are in the other areas are pretty straight-forward, like telling you of the King across the river or the island across the sea east of Metal Island, its just the Termite Kingdom tip that I recall being pretty vague

[Brosephski]

Publicado originalmente por Robby Shenanigans:

Yeah, Team Slacker stays in the areas that the superbosses are in until you beat them, then they leave that area. The one that I will say is confusing is that I don't think they specify that the area where the boss in the Forgotten Lands is is directly west from the pipe area

OOH! Those guys! Yes, they absolutely helped me in The Forsaken Lands, I used their hints to "easily" find that boss. I really wish I hadn't missed them in Defiant Root ;p

[Nintendo 32]

Unfortunately I don't have much to add to this discussion right now, but I just wanted to say that this almost perfectly summarizes my personal experiences and issues with the game. I emphatically second everything said here.

[wataniyob]

Publicado originalmente por Brosephski:

I can see people complaining about the movement speed. After looking up the history of this game, I noticed there used to be a running speed badge. Was it removed due to bugs or puzzle breaking concerns? This might be worth re-looking into.

The base speed in the game now is actually the speed which you had in the beta with the running speed badge equipped, so the original speed used to be even slower.

[Scott___S]

Oh wow, this is awesome! Thank you so much for the feedback! A lot to think about here.

[Brosephski]

Publicado originalmente por ŽižekLives!:

Oh wow, this is awesome! Thank you so much for the feedback! A lot to think about here.

Thank you for the great game. I added more to my feedback, in UI and GENERAL, IN-GAME HELP, as well as removed my concern about bounty hints (in hind sight, it seems there were appropriate hints, and I was just dumb lol).

[fb.gg/GamingCultures]

I enjoyed this game very much. I am so glad I randomly discovered this game. I was just looking for a new RPG to play, then seen this games video and reminded me of Paper Mario. But I noticed a ton of positive reviews and figure, to give it a try and it was awesome. Probably one of my most favorite RPG of 2019 and of all times.

[Brosephski]

Publicado originalmente por Facebook.com/GamingCulture808:

I enjoyed this game very much. I am so glad I randomly discovered this game. I was just looking for a new RPG to play, then seen this games video and reminded me of Paper Mario. But I noticed a ton of positive reviews and figure, to give it a try and it was awesome. Probably one of my most favorite RPG of 2019 and of all times.

Bug Fables has probably replaced Paper Mario in my personal top 10 games of all time. The nostalgia for Paper Mario is huge for me, especially the original, but the moment-to-moment gameplay of Bug Fables gives it the win for me. I've personally never replayed Paper Mario, but, thanks to the secret codes of Bug Fables, I could see myself doing a medal randomizer and finding a new reason to love this game all over again.

Also, I updated OP with another feedback bit. Achievements don't unlock properly during gameplay; something I noticed, but forgot about until I read more posts here in the forums.