It's the views....

[Swoop]

That's what's wrong. The new physics aren't that bad, after more testing I'm feeling it more. However, the views suck.

The cockpit view, dashboard or whatever it's called, is weird. Depending on the bike it's either in the wrong position (CBR600, top of windscreen bisecting the view) or too dark when viewing through the windscreen. It's horrible.

The head / helmet views are just plain wrong as well. I kinda like the tuck in / pop up, but the tuck in is too low. The only way to get a riders head into a position where that view is possible would be to take the fuel tank off. It needs to be higher up and further forward. The second issue is the tuck in / pop up happens at the wrong time, it's entirely throttle dependant. Bikers don't corner tucked in tight to the bike, we hang off to shift weight. We DO NOT tuck in mid way round a bend just because we've started to open the throttle.

Brighten the scenes up when looking through a screen, shift the tucked in head position MUCH higher and give us direct control over when we tuck in. Then I'll be happy. I'll be even happier if you give us control over head position settings so we can set it up how we like.

[Nacon]

Hey Swoop,

Thanks for the detailed explanation, these are some clear actionables. We're looking at what we can do to adjust the first person views, since it's clear these are a pain point for a lot of people playing TT2.

[Swoop]

Happy to help.

One question though: Does the game do anything like zooming in / out? Only I'm finding it difficult to judge distances and I can't work out if it's due to the dark scene or if the cam is zooming in under acceleration.

[KG_03]

Well on the other hand I feel the views are alright. However I agree the rider is moving up in wrong moment. Why not give the player the control of rider movement ?

Would be great if the tear offs were in the game. The bugs on visor are very intensive I like the effect but tear offs would help a lot.

I hope devs will work on non working dashboard LED rpm lights too...ah and the speed numbers at BMW S1000RR 2019 dashboard change to larger font if speed is below 100 😁

I start to fear that current fantastic onboard feel will be worse after changes. The headshake, position and field of view fit my riding style very much - gives perfect feeling of fast riding on bumpy road.

[CFL]

I'm not sure if everybody is talking about the same view, I'm talking about the HELMET view, not any other first person or cockpit view.
This view is much better than it was in TT1, please don't touch this!
If people get nauseated or get motion sickness and you want to please everybody, then introduce a second helmet cam but please leave the new improvements alone! :O

The points from the OP still make sense, though.

[paulieGTR]

Originally posted by Swoop:

snip...

That's what's wrong.

The second issue is the tuck in / pop up happens at the wrong time, it's entirely throttle dependant. Bikers don't corner tucked in tight to the bike, we hang off to shift weight. We DO NOT tuck in mid way round a bend just because we've started to open the throttle.

...give us direct control over when we tuck in. Then I'll be happy.

This, this, this. All day long.!!

Originally posted by Nacon:

Hey Swoop,

Thanks for the detailed explanation, these are some clear actionables. We're looking at what we can do to adjust the first person views, since it's clear these are a pain point for a lot of people playing TT2.

Yeah Dev's, i would sincerely like you to consider this.

1./ have the pilot's head/helmet view, start from a neutral position, like what it is now.
2./ when i accelerate, the camera needs to stay" in that neutral position.
3./ If and when I decide to tuck in, it's only then, that the camera should move/zoom in,
to reflect that.

4./ I'm tucked in pressing the stick forward... Only and only when i relax the stick back to
centre/neutral position that we started with, should the camera zoom back out.

Seriously, it's the player that should be controling when the camera moves in and out.
Right now the game is deciding and it's becoming unplayable because you're always
trying to compensate for a camera that might move or just doesn't.

===========
===========

dev's...
if you can tie the "forward zoom camera" to left stick position, that would help immensely.

ps. the new physics are greatly appreciated.

tia...

[KG_03]

Originally posted by CFL:

I'm not sure if everybody is talking about the same view, I'm talking about the HELMET view, not any other first person or cockpit view.
This view is much better than it was in TT1, please don't touch this!
If people get nauseated or get motion sickness and you want to please everybody, then introduce a second helmet cam but please leave the new improvements alone! :O

The points from the OP still make sense, though.

YES! And like Paulie said. Please please please dont touch the helmet camera. Just give us manual control over rider tucking in. My finger can hurt me for holding tuck in button for 60 minutes but it will add another feeling to the game 😁

[kensai606]

Could I also add a request to be able to adjust the 3rd person views.
On an ultra wide 4k monitor the rider and bike are tiny. I keep wanting to zoom in.
Loving the game though 😁

[max]

My five cents for developers.
Arcade mode:
1. High position (brake 20-100%)
2. Middle position (brake 20-0%, throttle 0-75%)
3. Low position (throttle 75-100%)
Simulator mode:
1. High position (sitting position LS down)
2. Middle position (is constant)
3. Low position (tuck position LS up). Also will add zooming in a low position. A game will become more realistic. On what way will the developers go?;) Arcade? Simulator? It is better to make both.

[GforceMI69]

One main aspect regarding the views that I haven't seen anyone mention is how the scenery/track/landscape/environment is completely static on the horizon in this game when playing in onboard/helmet view, whereas in the first game it rotates in a similar fashion that it would if you were riding a real bike, you lean left and the world around you rotates right in your peripheral view, and vice versa leaning right, you've never got your eyes parallel with the horizon on a real bike.

also regarding the bike leaning, it appears the bike is leaning (pendulum swinging) on an axis point that is above the handlebars instead of from the tyres on the tarmac, in helmet view the steering axis is slap bang in the middle of the screen when turning, to see it pick a point in the centre of the fairing and look how everything appears to swing left when turning right and swing right when turning left from that point you're looking at.

also, what's the deal with the way the rider behaves at slow speed in free roam mode, from standstill if you accelerate while turning left the rider does a quick flick of the bars to the right and vice versa turning right, that's annoying.

[Stray*Bullet]

We definitely need control over the rider position/cam tied to the left stick. If the devs are serious this time about being involved with community feedback, I will def give it another chance.

[Stray*Bullet]

Originally posted by GforceMI69:

One main aspect regarding the views that I haven't seen anyone mention is how the scenery/track/landscape/environment is completely static on the horizon in this game when playing in onboard/helmet view, whereas in the first game it rotates in a similar fashion that it would if you were riding a real bike, you lean left and the world around you rotates right in your peripheral view, and vice versa leaning right, you've never got your eyes parallel with the horizon on a real bike.

also regarding the bike leaning, it appears the bike is leaning (pendulum swinging) on an axis point that is above the handlebars instead of from the tyres on the tarmac, in helmet view the steering axis is slap bang in the middle of the screen when turning, to see it pick a point in the centre of the fairing and look how everything appears to swing left when turning right and swing right when turning left from that point you're looking at.

also, what's the deal with the way the rider behaves at slow speed in free roam mode, from standstill if you accelerate while turning left the rider does a quick flick of the bars to the right and vice versa turning right, that's annoying.

YES!!

[GforceMI69]

Originally posted by Stray*Bullet:

Originally posted by GforceMI69:

One main aspect regarding the views that I haven't seen anyone mention is how the scenery/track/landscape/environment is completely static on the horizon in this game when playing in onboard/helmet view, whereas in the first game it rotates in a similar fashion that it would if you were riding a real bike, you lean left and the world around you rotates right in your peripheral view, and vice versa leaning right, you've never got your eyes parallel with the horizon on a real bike.

also regarding the bike leaning, it appears the bike is leaning (pendulum swinging) on an axis point that is above the handlebars instead of from the tyres on the tarmac, in helmet view the steering axis is slap bang in the middle of the screen when turning, to see it pick a point in the centre of the fairing and look how everything appears to swing left when turning right and swing right when turning left from that point you're looking at.

also, what's the deal with the way the rider behaves at slow speed in free roam mode, from standstill if you accelerate while turning left the rider does a quick flick of the bars to the right and vice versa turning right, that's annoying.

YES!!

I posted this in another topic that got dropped, I'll just leave it here because i'm 99% certain this is the reason that axis point for the bikes is where it is, no other controller would give you this kind of result.

Originally posted by Photolight:

Originally posted by GforceMI69:

...looks like they killed the bike riding line handling they had and went full on Millstone pendulum physics ................. won't be buying this one if onboard behaves like that, will be instant refund, the exact same pendulum physics in Ride 3 and MotoGP19 are the reasons Milestone lost 2 game sales and I didn't bother buying them.

I noticed the same thing, the wheels should not swing to the left of center line as you turn to the right. Very annoying especially in first person which I prefer. I hope they can do a patch to fix it but that's very high hopes.

It's good to see that someone else has noticed what I have been saying for the last few yrs, it's one of those cases of "Once you se it, you cannot unsee it" scenarios, the recent bike racing games are suddenly handling like dogsh1t, and I think I may have figured something out.

checkout this handlebar controller and look at how the handlebars swing around like a pendulum because the pivot point is above the handlebars instead of below like a real bike, looks like the game devs have been using one of these or stupidly taking advice from people using them, and ruined their game for any other controllers, watch how the bars swing left to right and how the bike on screen swings with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Vh_vsRYWs

It would definitely go some way to explaining why this franchise went from having superb onboard bike handling to suddenly having pendulum swing !!!

and just to hammer the theory home, one of the first "Positive Reviews" was by SimUK within an hour of the game going live, and with 38hrs playtime when he posted it, it shows he was obviously playtesting for KT, and given he has one of those handlebar controllers ............... welll, not Rocket Science from there really is it.

[Swoop]

Re: Axis points.

Someone said bikes should pivot on their tyres, not from the helmet.....well kinda, not from the helmet certainly but bikes do not pivot on their tyres. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frQxWJUUIUs

Fast forward to 2m30s. Rossi knew damn well the bike wasn't going to pivot on its tyres....

[Swoop]

P.S. Back to the subject. I'm also coming to the conclusion the zoom / fov is all wrong as well. It needs zooming out a bit.

[Philip]

Or just give us a camera editor like in most flight/driving sims then everyones happy