Dust to the End

Dust to the End

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Kaaven Aug 15, 2021 @ 7:35pm
Trade Routes
How do they work and how to exactly run them? The passive town income is simple, but the trade route interface isn't too clear. I have some guild presence in most towns in the region, but I cannot set up any actual trade. I did place a leader (random trader merc I hired) but it does not seem to change anything. He also makes less than his upkeep.

So, how to do it right?
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Ihateeverybody Aug 15, 2021 @ 7:53pm 
Yeah this was confusing to me at first. This is the way I understand it. (which could be totally wrong, thats called a disclaimer, read your contracts kids!). Somone Correct me if I am wrong.

So every month you make the amount that is listed on the second tab (barring funds blocked). So increasing shares increases this amount. Increasing Prosperity (upgrading the industries) increases the amount.

Putting a Trader in the leadership slot will give a bonus. <I THINK> The higher level the trader increases the bonus.<I THINK>

To the best of my knowledge there is no setting up caravans to actually auto trade.

So the goal is to reach 100% Share and get all the money. Forcing out the other two. I recommend making sure you can win that fight before starting. You can only seize shares 3 times a week. So plan it out. You need credits (Seperate from gold) which is what you get for completing the Guild quests and helping out friendlies being attacked. (In the guild area).

The other guilds will respond when attacked with Blocking funds in places (Cant buy or sell and other penalties.

The minigame to seize is kind of hard to explain. Read the rules and play a few games. But for 10 credits more you can auto seize and I would recommend doing that to eliminate their share advantage before doing the Manual Seize.

I think that covers all I know. But ask more questions if you need to.

So yes, you will lose your trader in your party when you make them the Guild area (NOTE AREA) Leader.

Edit: You can always hire a replacement or just one to stick in the slot, at least temporarily. Note that they will still cost a monthly salary. The goal is to level a trader and stick them in there. 3 non com slots so.....

Edit 2: So if you piss off another Guild and at the beginning of the month (that's when they do stuff) it may say they are seizing your market. You need to go there for a battle, go the place and click on the guild tab (you may need to exit and re enter the guild tab a few times). There is a notes tab next to the settings button in the lower right that displays the last few messages,
Last edited by Ihateeverybody; Aug 15, 2021 @ 7:57pm
archmag Aug 16, 2021 @ 12:33am 
Originally posted by Ihateeverybody:
Putting a Trader in the leadership slot will give a bonus. <I THINK> The higher level the trader increases the bonus.<I THINK>
It's not level, it's traits that increase the bonus. It doesn't have to be a Trader to give bonuses, but trait type affects the amount and "Logistics - Trader" type traits give the highest percentage it seems. After you put your unit in leader's slot you can see the percentages. For example, "Transaction (C)" trait increases income in Desert's guild (I don't remember the values from Gobi and it may have different ones) by 25%, while "Transaction (B)" trait increases income by 50%. Increasing traits later will significantly increase your income. I think using the lowest level Trader you can get with two "Logistics - Trader" traits and one "Logistics - General" will give the highest %. CCC will result in 62%, BBC will result in 112%, etc.

You have to pay leader's salary so don't use the leader before you gain enough base income so that leader's bonus is higher than his salary.

The minigame to seize is kind of hard to explain. Read the rules and play a few games. But for 10 credits more you can auto seize and I would recommend doing that to eliminate their share advantage before doing the Manual Seize.
The game is quite easy and enjoyable. It does depend on luck a lot as last -15 and -25 tiles can screw all game for you. Each round the game rolls for you which tiles you have to take, it can be 1 or 2 tiles, different or same colors. After your turn it does the same for AI. You need to score more than AI to win and the difference in score results in higher acquisition amount, so instead of paying extra to auto-seize it may be much cheaper to get more shares for the same price by winning (I got up to 30% for 10 credit cost). I never tried auto-seize, so sometimes I had to win with enemy having up to 20 score advantage. I guess the advantage can be higher in Desert (didn't play it there yet), so using auto-seize to lower enemy's initial score may be important there.

During the game you shouldn't just take highest value tiles as this will most likely result in a loss. That's what AI is doing too so you don't get any advantages this way and just rely on random of the draw which is pretty equal during the game. You need to create zones that are connected by one tile and take that tile to get all the zone.

The AI is very predictable so most of the time you can create and take zones successfully. Unless you are really unlucky and don't get required color for several turns zone that was created correctly will be yours.

AI always takes random tile with the highest available value unless:
1. taking that tile takes a zone with a -15 or -25 tiles out. AI will skip that tile until it can't skip it because of the lack of other tiles of the same color. Then it will be forced to take it. You also get forced to take that zone out if you are the unlucky one at the end and there seem to be no way to affect this, it's just random on who is going to take those two at the end.
2. taking some tile results in taking a zone without negative value tiles out. It will prioritize taking that tile. Do notice that it still takes the highest value tiles first, so creating a zone connected by 2 points tile while AI is still collecting 4 point tiles is a safe way to keep the zone till your turn.

Example: lets say there are still three red 4s on the field (one of them holds a zone without negatives), one yellow 4 (holding zone with negatives) and four yellow 3s. AI randomly gets requirement to take 1 yellow+1 red. It will take red 4 that holds a zone and a random 3.

Note: instead of creating "safe" zones connected by one tile you can also create "safer" zones connected by two tiles. AI will ignore those completely so you can even leave highest value tile as a connector and AI can only take it randomly (this will still leave the other tile). But to take this zone yourself you have to get lucky with a draw, so that it requires you to take two tiles and colors are the same as connectors.

You can also leave longer connectors (more than 1 tile) where you can use any color to take the zone which will remove some requirements for a draw.

The more you win against other guilds the more sanctions they could do against you. Sanctions that I've seen include 0 cash at town, so you can only barter there (trade goods for other goods), can't buy trade goods in town (can still buy water and food), trying to take your shares (battle when you come to that town or losing some shares if you don't). Sanctions are activated every 2 month, so there is plenty of time to save your shares, take out the competition completely (if you prepared enough Credits) or to change your routes to avoid towns with sanctions.

Edit: apparently "Logistics - Mechanic" traits gives the same 25% per rank bonus, so it does not matter who you use, Mechanic or Trader as guild leader as long as they have only grey traits, not the combat ones. "Logistics - Mechanic" and "Logistics - Trader" increase guild income by 25% per level (C - 25%, B - 50%, A - 75%, S - 100% (I guess)), "Logistics - General" increase income by 12% per level (12-24-36(?)-48(?))
Last edited by archmag; Aug 16, 2021 @ 9:39am
archmag Aug 16, 2021 @ 3:16am 
Originally posted by Kaaven:
How do they work and how to exactly run them? The passive town income is simple, but the trade route interface isn't too clear. I have some guild presence in most towns in the region, but I cannot set up any actual trade. I did place a leader (random trader merc I hired) but it does not seem to change anything. He also makes less than his upkeep.

So, how to do it right?
Ohh, and about Trade Routes. I guess the text about making a Trade Route and discovering info about products are remains from previous version of the game where you could actually do something with this.

Currently you can only:
Guild tab:
Seize - pay credits to capture free or owned shares. Other guild's relationships to you will drop and they will start to activate sanctions against you every 2 months.
Reconcile - pay credits to stop enemy sanctions against you for 3 months (impossible to use after you anger the enemy guild too far).
Transfer - move your Office into this settlement (not sure why you may want to do that, it's only needed for the next option)
Abandon - only available in settlement with an Office (you can destroy your guild and get some credits back)

Trade tab (was it renamed recently? I think it was called Trade Route or something):
Check your income from each settlement (shares, prosperity, result).
Assign guild leader who will increase the income from guild in this region by % that depends on his traits

Information:
Check exact shares in each town and who owns them (to easier plan conquest of one enemy guild).

You only gain passive income that is displayed on Trade tab and gain leader's bonus. There is no other way of getting income from guilds. But upgrading industries significantly increases town's prosperity and as a result increases both base and leader's income.
Kaaven Aug 16, 2021 @ 4:22am 
Thanks! The mentions of the trade routes are confusing and it kinda sucks that there is no proper automated trade system, but it's good to know I was doing the whole thing right in the end.
Highspeedpixels Aug 16, 2021 @ 8:43am 
Originally posted by Kaaven:
Thanks! The mentions of the trade routes are confusing and it kinda sucks that there is no proper automated trade system, but it's good to know I was doing the whole thing right in the end.
As a player who are used to the old version where trade route is a thing: I spent a good minute clicking the town guild tab before giving up and went here to find some answer (lol).
It has been removed.

So far however (only at 3rd area), I think the new system is better. Maybe more tedious, but better. In the old trade route system, there are "winning" route (A-B-C-D) per area, and if you aren't using that, the income is very low. So in a way, it's not very flexible in my experience.

In the current system, you can't simply just snatch those town up as soon as you get the points. You have to build industry, increase prosperity, appoint leader and the profit is slower.

However, industry also means you get rarer goods = a LOT more income. So I think, it is more interesting since an upgraded industry can pretty much make you rich. I am also uncertain but I think building another industry may also make the town pay more for certain goods. If that is the case, there must be a best combination of industry, somewhere.

That being said, to be honest, passive income isn't that great - personally I believe its main goal is to reduce monthly cost of your caravan merc. Which it does pretty well. For everything else, trading directly is better. And the industry system synergize with that too.
archmag Aug 16, 2021 @ 9:15am 
Originally posted by Highspeedpixels:
I am also uncertain but I think building another industry may also make the town pay more for certain goods. If that is the case, there must be a best combination of industry, somewhere.
They certainly do. You can see in each industry's description which products it pays for more. I call them "needs" in my private google spreadsheet. They usually have 2x-3x price increase compared to normal ~1.5x. Upgrading industries also adds some "needs" sometimes. More than that upgrading industries also improves prices for existing "needs" by some amount.

Building more industries and upgrading them increases the amount of profitable routes you can use and also increases the value of items that you trade. It is one thing to buy items that cost 10 and sell them for 50 and another thing to buy items that cost 1000 and sell them for 1200. Second one is five times more profitable when you are limited by capacity, so the item doesn't even have to be a "need" to be very profitable.

That being said, to be honest, passive income isn't that great - personally I believe its main goal is to reduce monthly cost of your caravan merc. Which it does pretty well. For everything else, trading directly is better. And the industry system synergize with that too.
Yeah, I use passive income exactly to overcome the mercs' salary. Just got into positive after acquiring all independent shares in the Desert.

Currently really annoyed by the problem with mercs' salary that changes unexpectedly when leveling up (sometimes up, sometimes down) and as a result I avoid leveling them completely. Which means the passive income will become even higher soon so I don't have to worry about having to always trade and can travel around doing something else, like going back to upgrade industries in previous areas.
Last edited by archmag; Aug 16, 2021 @ 9:15am
Highspeedpixels Aug 16, 2021 @ 10:14am 
Originally posted by archmag:
They certainly do. You can see in each industry's description which products it pays for more. I call them "needs" in my private google spreadsheet. They usually have 2x-3x price increase compared to normal ~1.5x. Upgrading industries also adds some "needs" sometimes. More than that upgrading industries also improves prices for existing "needs" by some amount.

Building more industries and upgrading them increases the amount of profitable routes you can use and also increases the value of items that you trade. It is one thing to buy items that cost 10 and sell them for 50 and another thing to buy items that cost 1000 and sell them for 1200. Second one is five times more profitable when you are limited by capacity, so the item doesn't even have to be a "need" to be very profitable.

Nice, I also keep a small note around to remind me what sell best. It's not very good notes though.

Sometimes, it also depends on the town itself, I think. For example, in zone2, Winery sells very very well in Dome (since it is a quarry and drinking is one of their major need). However (but I might need to do more testing), both Whiskey (lv3) and Green wine (lv2) sells WAY more in dome than in the zone3 quarry. I think there is also town modifier that isn't shown - OR that it is better because Dome is Quarry by default whereas in zone3, it is a secondary? I can't check atm.

That being said, I am very interested if there is a guide that shows what's the best combination to break the game economy. Partly because I am sure there is that winning combination somewhere but... at the same time, it isn't really needed to go THAT far.

Also, yes, I divide item by quantity (bring a lot, sell for profit, some are good for that) or Quality (little amount, HUGE profit). Naturally quality items are the best (lighting, shoes, ingot) but when you can carry a lot more, you want both just to fill your max load.

Or, go a bit wild with industry. For example, just make clothing industry in camel market to produce both ingot and shoes and sell to new moon city = carry two types of Quality goods instead of one; sell in a place that pays great for both of them - AND have the funds to pay you. As long as you can carry em all, it's superb.

Yeah, I use passive income exactly to overcome the mercs' salary. Just got into positive after acquiring all independent shares in the Desert.

Currently really annoyed by the problem with mercs' salary that changes unexpectedly when leveling up (sometimes up, sometimes down) and as a result I avoid leveling them completely. Which means the passive income will become even higher soon so I don't have to worry about having to always trade and can travel around doing something else, like going back to upgrade industries in previous areas.

I find bunkers are somewhat more reliable. Well...maybe for certain produce. Namely, gold ore. I haven't tested for other (I suspect crude oil and tobacco also sells well!)

iirc gold only appears in the 3rd zone onward. The most annoying part is getting the LOCATION you want (fast travel efficiency) and the PRODUCE you want (gold ore).

A fresh new bunker, with just around 300,000-400,000 ish investment (because I bought the best labor, undergrounder 10,000 each, and a mix of here and there) and around 300 mats, I managed to make it produce 80,000+ monthly. That's with bad placement that only nets me 60+% efficiency.

If I clear more rooms and all, I hope it can get a lot higher and allow me to get the goal 500,000 monthly earning. This is from assumption that lv10 merc would/might cost 60k each. 7x60 = 420,000 ish. Might be higher.

But yeah, other than to cover that uh, measly(?) cost it doesn't really do much because you can gain way more at that point (think waaay more). It's just save me the headache of the possibility of running out of money for merc. That's... shouldn't even be an issue tbh starting at mid game. If anything it is a mid game issue than late game if you keep levelling them up lol.

I guess in the end it's just me pushing/trying to see how efficient I can get.
archmag Aug 16, 2021 @ 10:21am 
Originally posted by Highspeedpixels:
Sometimes, it also depends on the town itself, I think. For example, in zone2, Winery sells very very well in Dome (since it is a quarry and drinking is one of their major need). However (but I might need to do more testing), both Whiskey (lv3) and Green wine (lv2) sells WAY more in dome than in the zone3 quarry. I think there is also town modifier that isn't shown - OR that it is better because Dome is Quarry by default whereas in zone3, it is a secondary? I can't check atm.
Are they at the same level? Town with Tier 3 Quarry will buy Whiskey for a little more than with Tier 2 one.
Highspeedpixels Aug 17, 2021 @ 1:27am 
Originally posted by archmag:
Are they at the same level? Town with Tier 3 Quarry will buy Whiskey for a little more than with Tier 2 one.

Good question, that is possible. Maybe that is why.
Highspeedpixels Aug 17, 2021 @ 3:33am 
Have checked, it seems I was mistaken,Kangal Village was metal instead of quarry. Maybe that is why (it is level 3 metal though, gold and all)

I also noticed I can put both quarry and metal in that village, so... I guess double dipping is possible.
archmag Aug 17, 2021 @ 4:29am 
Originally posted by Highspeedpixels:
Have checked, it seems I was mistaken,Kangal Village was metal instead of quarry. Maybe that is why (it is level 3 metal though, gold and all)

I also noticed I can put both quarry and metal in that village, so... I guess double dipping is possible.
In Dome you can build both too. So you need to compare levels of both.
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Date Posted: Aug 15, 2021 @ 7:35pm
Posts: 11