This would be a lot better if...

[Drakeema]

The enemies and players were actually 3D :( I'll still probably buy and play it, though.

(Huuuge props for creating anything inspired by Arx Fatalis. Such an incredible gem of a game)

[Drakeema]

Originally posted by RidgeBack-Scintillan Gunslinger:

a bunch of GZDoom games are about to release

GZDoom is a pretty new phenomenon, I take it..? As far as Duke Nukem and Doom clones go, the only interesting one I recall seeing lately(ever?) would be the new Ion Maiden. I love certain 2.5D games, though, like Delver, Barony, One More Dungeon, and Still Not Dead.

But as far as Doom-like games go, I would always prefer to play a fully 3D game like DUSK, STRAFE, or Prodeus. 3D enemies will always have more complexity and be more engaging than flat 2D stuff. It's just far more natural and interesting to the brain, especially as far as animations within an environment go.

[>-FISH-D]

Originally posted by Drakeema:

Originally posted by RidgeBack-Scintillan Gunslinger:

a bunch of GZDoom games are about to release

GZDoom is a pretty new phenomenon, I take it..? As far as Duke Nukem and Doom clones go, the only interesting one I recall seeing lately(ever?) would be the new Ion Maiden. I love certain 2.5D games, though, like Delver, Barony, One More Dungeon, and Still Not Dead.

But as far as Doom-like games go, I would always prefer to play a fully 3D game like DUSK, STRAFE, or Prodeus. 3D enemies will always have more complexity and be more engaging than flat 2D stuff. It's just far more natural and interesting to the brain, especially as far as animations within an environment go.

Personally I enjoy Doom (sprite enemies) more than Quake (3d enemies) for my retro FPS gaming fix. There certainly are benefits and drawbacks to both though. We've witnessed 3d FPS graphics mature for the past 25 years to amazing levels but it's really nice to see a game like Hedon go back to the roots with sprite enemies for once. IMO much more artistic and interesting animation and extreme gore effects are possible with retro sprites than with 3d quake type enemy models. They just look cooler imo as well plus with sprite based enemies you can have a ton of action on screen and literally dozens of enemies at once without taxing your system.

Your're going to need to download Zandronum or GZdoom and Brutal Doom v21 if you want to see what's possible with a mixture of sprites and particles these days. It's amazing what the modders are doing now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YoADewX12E

Another mod Project Brutality 3.0 will be out soon and it will be even more amazing .


---------------------------



Also, since you enjoy Dusk I would recommend Quake 1.5 as well.

You just need to own Quake on Steam then download the Quake 1.5 mod from Moddb. Makes an amazing game even more amazing by adding new enemies, levels, lighting, and most importantly gore/kill effects..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnP1kenhekA

[Drakeema]

Originally posted by -Fish-:

much more artistic and interesting animation and extreme gore effects are possible with retro sprites than with 3d

Artistic(retro)? Sure. Interesting? A matter of taste. Extreme gore? There will never be a day when 2D gore is more intense, compelling, frightening, visceral and vividly carnal to your mind. Even if the sprites were all 4Kx4K resolution. ^ ^ Liero with 32000% gore IS REALLY DAM N SWEET...but there's no reason the same can't be done in 3D. It's just way cooler to see a 3D arm blown off, and then the 3D body flail around in 3D space, than the 2D equivalent. How you gonna shoot a dead ragdoll 2D body on the ground..??! See here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5hYUqN9X0Y

Originally posted by -Fish-:

with sprite based enemies you can have a ton of action on screen and literally dozens of enemies at once without taxing your system

Do you live in 1995? Have you ever heard of Serious Sam..? ;p /thread. (I suppose we have to define "taxing", and how much taxation a gamer considers acceptable)

I've seen(or even played?) Brutal Doom! :D Very cool guns & fx. <3

Have NOT seen Brutal Quake! But have seen very sexy Quake & QW graphics mods. You said "Quake 1.5"; I was immediately disappointed after finding out it's (Brutal) Quake 1.5 :( Just like I am about this game solely advertising it's 3D game inspirations, but not being so itself lol. ,_,

What would be really neat? A fully 3D Doom remake :) And a 2.5D version of Quake, so you could play both and determine which you find to provide a better experience. I'd spend big bucks to have either of those.

[>-FISH-D]

Quake 1.5 mod also features new lighting, textures, levels, bosses, enemies, particle effects, and weapon effects. Difficulty and enemy #'s have been tweaked. It is extremely well done and keeps the proper formula intact. To me it represents the definitive version of Quake...not just a "brutal Quake" gore mod .

Oh yes, Serious Sam! It did have large enemy numbers I forgot. Though I always thought of SS as a budget bargin bin title and it didn't really immerse me at all. It was enjoyable for what it was but nothing to write home about. It just lacked a certain ...soul? The large open environments with dozens of enemies were fun for a bit though and of course possible with 3d enemies.

Yeah I'm just not picky about Hedon. I enjoy it for what it delivers just as I have enjoyed other fps games in the past 25 years starting with Wolfenstein 3d and Blake Stone. 2.5 or 3d world, sprites or 3d enemies, there is good gameplay and design in each! Enjoy them all for what they are and the past they represent. And lets not forget there are many more fps with a retro flair coming down the pipeline. :)

[Drakeema]

Originally posted by -Fish-:

Quake 1.5 mod also features new levels, bosses, enemies. Difficulty and enemy #'s have been tweaked.

Well, that's sweet! I think I've only played 1 or 2 out of the 4 mission packs for Q & Q2 so far.

Yeah, Serious Sam games differ a lot. The first 2 have always been my favs, but I like SS2 in a lot of ways(even though it's so freaking weird and cartoony). I beat SS:TSE on Serious difficulty once :D Those difficulties are no joke lol. I've had the most fun of any game in co-op in SS, as well.

I'm just not interested in MORE Doom and Doom clones :( It's just too ancient for me. I've been playing 3D games since the N64 lol. I want a game to be ALL 2D, or ALL 3D, like King's Quest or Battletoads. Text-based adventure games or point-and-click adventure games :) 3D just doesn't belong there.

[Drakeema]

3D ragdoll fun (at 0:44) :] <3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecVjozkaR8&t=44

1:40
https://youtu.be/LNV87l5mgjE?t=100

[DukeoftheAges]

Originally posted by Drakeema:

Originally posted by Hans Brotmeister:

Duke Nukem 3D had sprites. Shadow Warrior had sprites. Blood had sprites. System Shock had sprites. Doom & Doom 2 had sprites. Hexen had sprites. Strife had sprites.

All awesome games.

True :) But listing fully 3D games as inspiration is misleading, I guess. I was not aware that this was a Doom clone, until talking in this thread.

That's not misleading at all, might want to learn what inspiration means, you seem to think it means direct copy.

[Future Romans]

Originally posted by RidgeBack-Scintillan Gunslinger:

Void Bastards just released, which uses sprite based enemies, and a bunch of GZDoom games are about to release sometime over the next year.

Sprite work is back in fashion!... Or atleast a method for indies to be able to produce FPS within their means. And have them look decent.

If you want to agrue Hedon for 2d vs 3d. Compare the visual quality of Wasted: A post apocalyptic pub crawler to Void Bastards. -- SUBJECTIVE, but I'd argue Void Bastards looks more slick than Wasted and they're sorta share the comic book-ish visual style.

Metro and Doom are fantastic, and going to sprites would harm those games... but they're are giant multi-million-dollar AAA companies, they can fund the massive cost of content pipeline for 3d entities.

The general look of hand drawn, or at least, hand-worked sprites gives a warmer feeling to a game. 3D models are immersive but sprites give a sense that an artist actually sat down, thought about what looked best, sketched it up, then actually drew it. There's a tangibility to sprites, even pixel art ones, that escapes the otherwise factory-pressed models coming from 3D sculpting or processing programs. Like the difference between a genuine painting and a xerox, there's some soul still left in the sprite if it's done well. I think that's the difference.

[Axcelon]

people saying that 3D is better than 2D? what is this? the late 90's?

[Drakeema]

Originally posted by Last, Best Hope of the West:

The general look of hand drawn, or at least, hand-worked sprites gives a warmer feeling to a game.

Right; it looks less realistic, or very far from realistic. It's harder to create such an illusion with 3D, as you can notice corners of polygons sticking out abruptly, breaking all illusions of realism lol.

[Drakeema]

Originally posted by brunocar02:

people saying that 3D is better than 2D? what is this? the late 90's?

In this case, I would rather play the version of the game with 3D enemies. Maybe the majority would, as well.

[Kaizen]

Originally posted by Drakeema:

Originally posted by brunocar02:

people saying that 3D is better than 2D? what is this? the late 90's?

In this case, I would rather play the version of the game with 3D enemies. Maybe the majority would, as well.

definietly not I. Low poly 3D models look atrocious and age horribly. They should be illegal.
Well done sprite work is timeless.
TIMELESS

[Drakeema]

Originally posted by Gameo:

Low poly 3D models look atrocious and age horribly. They should be illegal.
Well done sprite work is timeless.
TIMELESS

So you're saying that every game after Doom has aged horribly? Since _every_ 3D model used in 3D games is a low poly 3D model. Even though it may use normal mapping and/or high resolution photosource texturing that represents a high poly version of the model.

If you ask me, I'd say Doom has aged FAR more than Quake or Quake 2, and that Doom's 2.5D technology was simply a tiny stepping stone in game advancement, that id wished could have been possible back then for Doom. But if we're talking adventure/point-and-click games? A lot of those old buggers are still pretty cool :)

[Hursti]

doom aged more than quake? get the F out of there. doom sprites are eternal, quake 3d models started to look bad after like a year of its release. talking about purely how things look, not about gameplay/level design etc.

same thing when talking about every early 3d game out there. for example, legend of zelda games, ocarina of time models look HORRID, but link to the past sprites are still amazing to look at. castlevania symphony of the night vs castlevania 64? yeah i think no one would say symphony of the night looks worse. hell, even the nes castlevanias look way better than the early 3d ones today.

[Zan_HedonDev]

Keep it civil, guys, no flaming please.